RTR

[rossevans30]

My DynaPack 3000 (one above the base model) was $62,000.

- Derek

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=619666&page=30



Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63445#msg63445

[rossevans30]

P.S. The flow of 76CC smog heads falls flat over .400 lift.... Considering 76CC smog heads are the rule many places, the only guys that get any advantage from the no lift rule are the ones running cheater heads already...

The joke is on the poor guy running at the back with smog heads, who thinks he'll take advantage of the no lift rule... While the guys that are already cleaning up with expensive race engine make even more power from the rule and pull further and further away....

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63447#msg63447

[rossevans30]

a) Pistons in a built motor are always aftermarket. Hypertectic 9:1 dished pistons (or flat top) are cheap. About $300.00 Ban any other pistons like forged custom light weight JE, Ross, Mahle, etc.. and if you want, ban total seal style rings too.

b) If 64 cc chamber heads are hard to get, then I agree, you're stuck with the bigger cc heads. There are some good cast iron race heads that are cheap but as you and I have already discussed, push the cost up beyond what I want to suggest for a built $2,800.00 TC motor. RHS makes some nice Chevy 180 CC runner heads that are about $695 a set and $825 for a set of Ford's with 62 and 64 cc chambered spec.

c) Cam's - gets sticky here - because everyone has their own opinion. But if we ensure single springs on valves, and always run hydraulic, then I think that as a general rule we're not going to have cams that push beyond 7,000 without valve float being a problem due to the spring pressures that can survive (for very long) and thus not sure if we need a Cam rule in a 350 Cubic Inch class. High lift cams mean a lot of pressure on stock rocker arms too, so I don't think it's gonna work for very long if the engine builder really pushes his luck. TC cars are heavy.

d) With respects to where you finish with a $2,800 motor, I was comparing to a 602 CRATE motor, I think it would be pretty even, which were I was taking this discussion and not trying to compare it to a $10,000 built motor. I think you got your arguements mixed up there in what I was proposing I already clearly stated what high end built motor could easily do, so I think we agree already there.

a) Not everything is aftermarket. Remeber this is (was) and entry stock class. Yeah for LLM your pistons are aftermarket, but thunder? Take for example the 290 hp crate engine, that was the crate for Kawartha and Mosport. Thats good good old GM stock pistons in it. Thats what this class is about. We shouldn't even be considering what hypertectic pistons to be using or gapless rings, that LLM stuff..

b) Why all these aftermarket heads? Why not just run 76cc smog heads. Its not $600 for a pair is $300 and if we all have the same stuff, its a level playing field. Again you want to deal with aftermarket heads, LLM is the place. If you really need to add another head, make it a vortec head. You can get those for the $600 price at the GM dealer, OR you can pull a set off any truck..

c) Cams - it dosn't get sticky here. Its simple, what you say about springs and lifters is correct.. Its also correct that the more money you throw at those problems, the less of a problem they will become. Again you are opening it up to the guy with the biggest wallet wins the high lift cam game.

d) your $2,800 build is going to get KILLED by the 602. I know a 10K build will kill your $2,800 built but I was talking about your average these days $5,000 build. That will also kill your $2,800 built. Everything out there will kill it..

At $2,800 you are not going to keep up with the 602, and still make the rules. 602 has the vortec heads, you cannot build with vortec heads. No aftermarked heads eaither, and no double bump. So what in the world are you going to use for heads on your $2,800 build, to come anywhere close to a 602?

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63480#msg63480

[Paul R. Hooker]

interesting talk about teching cars...with the cost of gaskets etc. and time which the tracks do not compensate you for to rebuild your engines (purses are not keeping up to cost of racing).  has anyone thought of a system to handicap cars by weight acccording to there qualifying and run times in heats (in case someone is sandbagging) take the 7 fastest time and work forward and back 7 spots (run what you bring but you will be handicapped. and there is enough information (previous events) to establish a median time).  from what i have observed at the races 3 years ago built motors were basically penalized over the crates now the crates should be penalized over the builts (check out the top 7 cars at most race tracks and how they finished and what type of motor they ran)

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63481#msg63481

[CVM95]

My DynaPack 3000 (one above the base model) was $62,000.

- Derek

http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=619666&page=30

Did we note that this is $62,000.00 US


Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63488#msg63488

[rossevans30]

Ross,

I sense a dare and a bet coming on

So your saying I can't build a $2,800.00 motor to win against a 602 crate motor or a $5,000.00 built motor in a Thunder car? hrmmmmm I bet you I could ..but what's the bet? LOL

I do agree with you that this has to be brought back to entry level.

When I say aftermarket pistons, they are stock replacement design. Hyptertectic by the way, is pretty much a stock production piston design in every small block chevrolet since 1990 with the exception of the Z-28's, Corvette's of some years which had Forged Pistons.

The bottom line is that I agree that motors for TC have to get back to basics. But there's talk about introducing a crate motor to TC's. As I've already mentioned, at some tracks what they can put into a motor these days is getting unreal.

Doug,

You are showing why its so hard to keep up with any division except the one you run in. There isn't "talk" about introducing crate motors to TC's is a fact, and has been for a long time. Crate has been an option and Kawartha and Mosport for over 3 years now. This year the 602 is the crate motor for both Kawartha's Thundercars and the new class at Mosport. About everywhere except for Barrie and Sunset, crates are not talk, they are fact.

Yeah you have a dare on your $2,800 build.. If you pull that off, its not what I give you its what every will give you. Save the bills and you will prove that you are the best engine builder out there and everyone will know it. I would say the look on a guy's face who spend $5,000 on an engine, to be beat by at $2,800 engine would be worth it. Hey you don't even have to build it. Post the recipe for it on here, let anyone build it, then not only will to be credited with having God like knowlegde, you will have also single handedly saved thunder cars...

And when you say aftermarket, then you say "stock replacement" the question is stock replacement for what? Not stock replacement for smog headed engines, because that would push the compression of your 64cc heads to over 10:1. Either way, it gets back to the point if you allow 64 cc heads, you will obsolete all shortblocks with pre 80 smog head pisions, or "stock replacement" equivalents

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63495#msg63495

[rossevans30]

Renting is the only option - unless the OSCA buys one and then rents it to tracks throughout the year and then rents it out to OSCA members at a discount an non-OSCA members for a small fortune

Doug Hanchard

Now you are talking...

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63496#msg63496

[rossevans30]

Building a motor for 2,800.00 to match a 602 crate is fairly straight forward, till you point out all the gotchas.

Gotcha, nothing flows like vortecs....

Naw if you got good numbers off a cheap build then all the power to you. I'd be happy to see it tho. Ford is a different animal.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7125.msg63498#msg63498