Delaware Modifieds; Save or Kill (unlocked)

[Wernham]

The problem with the Modified division is the cost vs. payout.  After Delaware Speedway’s rule changes a few year ago moving to rack and pinion steering, coil over style suspension, and strut rods being allowed they basically turned them into Late Models without fenders.  It virtually cost the same to build a Modified as a Late Model.  

If you look back at the history of the Modifieds it was suppose to be the step between Super Stock and the Late Models.  Tony’s original plan was to have a affordable adjustable chassis similar to the Late Models but allow the Super Stock guys to bring there engine over to reduce the costs making it very affordable learner class on the drivers progression to Late Model racing.  The class originally races on street tires, the same ones as the Super Stocks to reduce costs.  Now the cars are fender less late models running on the late model tire.  The costs are the to build the car, maintain the car, and race the car.  What would you build?

Since the big rules changes 4-5 years ago, the old used cars became out-dated and worthless. I know of complete rolling chassis’s that cost sold for a couple cases of beer and some even got scrapped.  The rule changes destroyed the used modified market that allowed new teams to enter the division at a reasonable cost instead of a $60,000 brand new one.

The Modifieds this past year was $600 to win compared to $1100 to win in Late Model.  Furthermore, heard the Modified Point purse was $1600 compared to $44,000 that the  Late Models received including their NASCAR money.  What would you build or race for the same cost?

Now, who’s to blame in all of this?

The high dollar teams that pushed for these rule changes, and more importantly the race director for letting it happen.  I can recall one driver that stood up in the original rule meeting and said,  “Why am I changing my perfectly good race car?”  By the way; he is no longer in the class.  

Now the track wants to kill the division, but is giving the teams the rope to hang themselves.  6 races a year for $125 is a slap in the face to these teams.  Who is going to stick around for that? Who will want to get into a division for that?

In history it has been typically been easier to destroy than rebuilt.  Destroying is the lazy mans way

I guess the owner, management and race director like taking the lazy way out instead of trying to rebuild this great division.

Now lets be positive?  What can we do to save this division?  Or is it too late like the track thinks?



Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=10777.msg76322#msg76322

[Dougy109]

Open up the rules, and have at it. Let our racing friends from the States know we are here, throw a bunch of good purse money out.... make every race invitational.... ADVERTISE it, with the intent of the above.

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[chap]

Now trucks and ss cost the same to build and open wheels,late models cost the same to a point. Nothing in between and since a 78 nova is hard to find good parts for I think the ss should be advanced a bit more.just my opinion

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[racerx]

HMMMMMMM, i think wernams out to lunch on his figures, come on guys 60k!!!!! i,m not involved anymore in the mod division, but you can buy a car (if you mechanical inept) from 12k to 15k from a builder add you motor/trans and go racin, then there is the used complete option as well. heard from a couple guys that where at the meeting ,that Delaware yearly pay and bonus where 30k for 2009.  MY vote is to keep the mods 

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[tigeraid]

After Delaware Speedway’s rule changes a few year ago moving to rack and pinion steering, coil over style suspension, and strut rods being allowed they basically turned them into Late Models without fenders.  It virtually cost the same to build a Modified as a Late Model.

Ah! That was the answer I was looking for in the other thread.  No wonder it's too pricey to run a Modified.  If they want to save this class, they should make it closer to a stock chassis with a Modified body on top.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=10777.msg76335#msg76335

[streetstocker33]

After Delaware Speedway’s rule changes a few year ago moving to rack and pinion steering, coil over style suspension, and strut rods being allowed they basically turned them into Late Models without fenders.  It virtually cost the same to build a Modified as a Late Model.

Ah! That was the answer I was looking for in the other thread.  No wonder it's too pricey to run a Modified.  If they want to save this class, they should make it closer to a stock chassis with a Modified body on top.

that's the way it was, but even then the car count wasn't very impressive.

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[FromTheStands]

and since a 78 nova is hard to find good parts for I think the ss should be advanced a bit more.just my opinion

no, no , no, no  and i think   no.


I hope my edit clears that up!



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[smithbarney]

I think the bottom line as it will in any venture dictate the program. Remember wilcox is big on partnerships until you cross the line and then it it's a ditatorship, all depending on the time of day and wind.

my 1.5 cents is that the track is going in a different direction then the weekly program..I could be wrong, but the weekly program will pay the bills but not make a profit.. In order to pursue that profit margin they will need the weekly ( slimed down version) to pay the bills and a big show every few weeks to make the money??

Again all speculation with nothing more than the history of the tracks in and aroud the mountain of Hamilton to draw upon..\


I do sincerley hope that the track with or wthout the current Race director keeps the division ( i would think that a decision like this would be made at the general manager or ownership level), and gives the mod division not only the support they deserve but a fair chance at making  a go of this.. After all was it not the same treams and owners that bought into the program to make Delaware a better entertainment venue??

Tell me for those in attendance, was either the new GM and or Arlene there, if so did they speak or were they happy with JW being the puppet?

And now you all understand why I sold my cars in 2006!

I do wish all the very best and hope that this is a small bump in the schedule.






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[What?]

I don't have a dog in this fight.
But six races? Might as well just drop the class now because thats what will happen in 2011. Delaying the inevitable.

However, this is not the way to go.
There are 10 steady cars per week correct? If so then the track has something to build on. Hopefully they can be convinced to keep the mods and put a proper effort toward making the class healthy.

First problem is the rules. Delaware Mod rules are just way way out there, and way to many!
Let the tire be the limiting factor. Treaded race tire such as Hoosier 970, buy only one a night, and who cares how much $$$ anyone spends on their motor cause you only have limited grip with the limiting tire anyways.

Headers are part of the engine - no rules
Allow Bert/Brinn/Falcons, they save a racer money long term.
Allow the quick change. No advantage, other than guy's that travel with thier mods will now be legal.
No external canister, or external adjustable shocks.
Get the weight down to 2400, 2450 with Alum heads.

Heck just use USA Modified rules. 90% of the asphalt modifieds in Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio are USA Mod legal. Then Delaware mods can also travel if they choose. Tons of tracks within an easy drive west of Sarnia to go racing on a Saturday night.

The biggest hurdle will be what to do about those pesky latemodel modifieds. The ones with tube clips, racks...... or does anything need to be done at all with these cars?  Grandfather any registered 2009 latemodel modified. If they start to stink up the show and run away with everything, then reign them in with a small rules adjustment.
I would also suggest group qualifing for the Mods. 10 cars at a time for ten laps, with invert, Min 3, Max 12. Points for top 4 qualifiers only.Helps keep the sand baggers at bay.

At the end of the day, the Mod class can be successful at Delaware.

I hope the teams have the will to fight for it, and the track the integrity and effort to make it happen. A rock solid mod class has got to be money in the bank.

-Brian













Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=10777.msg76348#msg76348

[crew]

 The two biggest problems are PAYOUTS or lack of them and negative talk of KILLING the class. Who would take the chance of building a car that the class might not be there in a year or so. As far as engines go whats wrong with the rules the way they are. I would like to have between 6 an 700 horse to play with like the Michigan Mods have but those kinda pony's need alot of Oats. The tires are the  limiting enough now, the guys that came down from the Sue. found that out at Autumn colors. They ran the Michigan mod rules on 980s ran outa grip early. The tranys are a good idea, cheaper than a t10 and stronger. Shocks, i would like a revalveable single adjustable at least rebound side just to keep the inventory down. They are more money but cheaper that buying more and more shocks to try and fine tune. Lighter weight is alright if you already have the lead on board to drop off your older car with the stock clip and keep the left side % up.

   
                                                                                                                                                               
The biggest hurdle will be what to do about those pesky latemodel modifieds. Now that's kinda funny cause they are more akin to the super latemodel being a straight rail car an all. I can't see why anyone would ever think of welding on a stock clip ever again. they cost too much. The last Z28 came off the line back in 1981 the 69 chevelle frame was used up to 1972 the chances of finding a good one is getting slimmer by the day. Have you priced the difference between running a rack an a good racing steering box, center link and idler arm assembly. I have and i will stick with the rack. The guys that went to AC from the Sue got banged up a little bit , and there biggest concern was for there over priced steering boxes. The price of running the strut front clip for the last 10 plus years has been a dramatist amount cheaper. Going to the steel rack has been alot easer than spending days at the wrecking yard cutting cars apart just to find a lot of rot-in unusable parts. The days of building anything more than a street stock or 4 banger from the boneyard are all but over. Unfortunate for the future racers out there.





Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=10777.msg76361#msg76361

[racerx]

Ah! That was the answer I was looking for in the other thread.  No wonder it's too pricey to run a Modified.  If they want to save this class, they should make it closer to a stock chassis with a Modified body on top.



lets see, fuel costs to/from track, fuel for race car, back gate fees, nascar license, beer and food, transponder rental, tires, oh did i mention beer
I dont think the cost to run a mod is any different than any other weekly division.
also if memory serves me correctly, the front clips on these cars are a fabricated version of the camaro clip. now i havent been up close and snoopin, but if someone had a strut front end wouldn't someone be complainin?
as far as payouts go i think they are in line if not better than  other racetracks Ont and Michigan alike.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=10777.msg76362#msg76362

[jworacing]

Ain't that the truth!!! it cost dough to run anything, Well we got all winter to hit the bricks and go get some sponsors

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[gwb5757]

Just my perspective ! I have ran the last two seasons in the mods and can tell you I spent no where near 60,000 ! I had about 5000 in my car complete and that included buying the car and then putting a good used (striaght) floater rearend and new bladder fuel cell in after I got it !!! Yes I know it was'nt the fastest car out there and not the best appearing but I had a hell of a lot of FUN (yup thats right FUN) racing it and even managed to win 4 heat races ! I think the track is at least trying to give the mod guys a chance to do something with thier cars and still give them somewhere to race rather than just say goodbye and good luck like it used to be done. As far as weekly expences go I know I only bought 4 new tires over the two seasons and had no trouble getting decent used ones for free ! I just don't get how a guy could go out and spend that kind of money to race when you know the payout before hand then try to make it sound like the track is to blame for what they spent ! Hell all this talk makes me want to get another older car and come out and race in the mods (CHEAP) and have some more FUN !!! I'm thinkin 602 crate with a 4 barrel and a light clutch older used chassis should all be available for maybe 5 to six thou and you have a competetive car Woo Hoo !!! If you have an older style mod sittin around let me know ! I just might be interested !!!
                                                                                        Later
                                                                                               Brooksie 

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[gwb5757]

Just one more thing ! If I crunched the numbers I think I made (yes made) money racing my car !!! 

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[Shadowracer]

From the business end of things I have no idea what to think. If they want to axe the modifieds, then its their perogative, and it wouldn't be the first time a class has gone by the wayside. Unfortunately this might be the BEST class to fall by the wayside.

I do beleive there were some mistakes made with the rules, and true enough the class seems to have become LM lite. It might be too late to pro-rate the rules, so where does that leave us?

First thing I would point at is to look at the history of the Canadian Vintage Mods AKA the Hobbies. Way back in 69 (or whatever it was) a bunch of guys got together and figured out a way to keep coupe racing alive. I beleive that the mod drivers could do worse than to look at that example and then think long and hard about trying to get together with the Varney guys and anywhere else they run them, and form a club. No track owner is going to pass up the chance to put on a good show, and the mods certainly deliver it. If banding together with other tracks and doing a tour is the way to do it then so be it.

Make no mistake...the modifieds have long been a part of the rich tapestry of Delaware Speedway. Its a variety of car that's a little funkier than a fender car, and just a wee bit of a throwback to the days where open wheels ruled Delaware. And I think that losing them would make Delaware a different place.

I don't know the answer, but I know there comes a time when even the guys that aren't hung up on car count have to say 'something needs to happen here", and I guess we've reached that point.

I really hope we can come up with something, some sort of alliance with another track or group..and if it happens and we get a good modified show once a month rather than every week, then maybe that's not a bad thing.

I hope we can work something out. And to all parties, if there is anything I can do to help the casue, just let me know and I'll come a - running. You guys have long been a part of this speedway and still deserve to have a home here.

We just need to figure out a way.


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