CanadianRacingOnline.com
CanadianRacingOnline.com Section => General Racing Areas => Ask The Mods => Topic started by: CanadianRacingOnline on December 30, 2007, 07:24:24 PM
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Here is your chance to privately post about recent post on CRO. Please don't worry this is just to see how others feel about what is going on and you don't have to post a comment and be subject t someone attacking you or what you said. Just vote.
If you like send me a pm to tell me how you feel about it and it is between me and you only no one else.
Thanks
Happy New Years
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i'm not sure how the voting will turn out but i have a couple of thoughts...
although i didn't make any comments about spelling or grammer, i cringed everytime i noticed the mistakes and thought the same as other people wrote. it wasn't because i think he is a lessor human being for those errors, i cringed in sympathy for him, because i know that he has a passion for it and is trying to make it seem as professional as the big series but no matter it makes it seem unprofessional with those errors and then worse even in his response. bottom line that stuff wasn't overlooked by his audience, so it needs to be taken care of....period.
some people are a little more blunt than i am but he should have learned the first time it was brought up.
that goes for any track website or series website and even with you Evan on this site because you are the official spokesperson and you represent this site and you would like to make potential advertisers think that you pay attention to detail as part of being a good manager. we know you are good but to others this is their first impression.
look at kawarthas website...in the write up on the main page there are question marks all over the place.
i know that kawartha is a nice track which seems to have a professional appearance when i'm there but if i was a potential sponsor and i saw that i would not want to give my money to a track because if they don't take the time to make that write up look professional that is available to anyone who gives a damn about the track, are they going to take the time to make sure my needs as a sponsor are met? is my business name going to be spelled right?
Sunset's website has been just ruined in the last year, my sponsors name was spelled wrong all year, others were butchered enough that the actual type of business changed. We used to have some statistics and we could look back on all our old results...not anymore. how can we take a step backward on the website and expect to move forward and grow the track when the website is the only way that anyone from far away can see what the track is about...
barrie offers a "sponsorship primer" sheet with a spelling mistake. good idea but no attention to detail which results in a bush league appearance to potential sponsors
the guy from delaware or flamboro sent greg m. at inside track news an illegible list of award winners leaving out a couple of divisions and greg posted it as is and it showed how brutal a situation it is at that track. can't remember which one it was but somebody does out there. greg m couldn't have fixed it because it was chicken scratch.
the cayuga debacle......need i say more?
It seems like the track and series owners are contributing to their own difficulties and the passionate race fans and participants are being frustrated by the simplest good business practices being ignored by most and they know it will lead to more of the same crap and it hinders the growth and perception of the sport to those outside of it. We are all begging for a better product when it comes to canadian racing as racers and fans and are being ignored
if mid is representing the OSS and is partnered with CRO he can't be emotional in his public communication or conversations, especially CRO! that is hard for him i'm sure because he is putting his heart and soul into it but he has to put on another hat when he interacts with those in the media and on public message boards. behind the scenes to those you trust say what you like. but you have to crawl before you walk and mid got what he asked for by using this medium for his press releases and not taking the time to calculate the intelligence of the racing crowd and setting himself up for this. If he's been around the racing scene so long he should know what he's gonna have to deal with...
i didn't know about this site or the OSS 6 months ago and i came on here to see some sunset/barrie trash talking and now i'm here everyday because this is where you find out about racing and what's happening because the tracks don't tell us anything and don't update their websites or work with each other. I like that things are talked about and or dissected on here and that's what keeps me coming back. It was the controversy that led me to hear about it though.
This site is good for Canadian Racing because it lets us as racers/fans express their views about perceived or real BS we've been dealing with and raises ideas and improvements.....you just have to play by the rules and if you don't you lose the privilege, bottom line.
If the track owners would pull there heads out of there behinds they would realize that there are a whole bunch of people doing their marketing and promotional research right here on this site and there are a tonne of good ideas and opinions that come from here including constructive criticism, which is also good for the racing scene even if it hurts sometimes.
i must say i'm interested in the OSS now even though i didn't agree with mids way of handling things and i bet there are alot more people on here now because of what has transpired so i guess any publicity is good publicity and that's a good reason why things shouldn't change IMO.
My advice would be to hold your course and get more moderators to deal with the increased number of people and accept that you will always be dealing with problems just hopefully not ones who are supposed to be your parter. As the site grows so do the problems so i would accept it as part of the beast you've created.
BTW thank you for creating this beast, keep it up, happy new year
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Keep at it guys, without change there is no progress and your recent addition of the moderators is working.
I heard this somewhere before and it applies to both the moderators and all tech people anywhere,
The dog chain is only as good as it's anchor point
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username, I couldn't have said it better myself. The best post I have read in weeks.
It seems like the track and series owners are contributing to their own difficulties and the passionate race fans and participants are being frustrated by the simplest good business practices being ignored by most and they know it will lead to more of the same crap and it hinders the growth and perception of the sport to those outside of it. We are all begging for a better product when it comes to Canadian racing as racers and fans and are being ignored.
Right on the mark with that statement !
ps I will post some Kawartha rumors, speculation and news in the next couple of days.
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Well put username.
CRO was build on users being able to express their views but somewhere in the last year it seemed to get more personal and not a discussion.
I got a great bunch of mods to help me out and we are getting more order into the forums.
I have gotten so many people sending me Pm's to say they are happy to see we are putting our foot down and taking action. I feel more users will come back to the site as they now feel safe to post as we now have a code of conduct that protects them from being attacked on the site and this was a big problem in the past.
Yes we have a couple saying that Dave should be allowed back on but I have to stick with the ruling.
I could see if he just swore at them but threats is where we have to say your gone. People keep saying some of them got what they deserved. This is not true no one should be threatened. If he swore at them and told them off in one email fine as some did get what they deserved.
A lot of members were warned in this little dispute and no one was singled out. I still can't believe I had to deal with all this in the holiday season.
I will let you all in a little secret when thissite get to the point that I'm going to lose it I walk away from it as I know we all have lives and can think of better things to do today then keep on trying to figure out went wrong here. We have to move on as we always have.
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As a long time forum member I am a bit confused about this OSS thing. I can see why CRO and OSS no longer have the relationship deal. I see there is no longer a discussion forum for OSS such as there is for OSCARR,Vintage modified and some others. Am I to conclude that due to the current relationship between this forum provider ,CRO, and OSS, that members should no longer discuss the OSS on this site, assuming that discussion meets the code of conduct? If that is the case I feel a degree of censorship is taking place and would have to reconsider to continue my membership. It might be stretching a comparison but I feel it's a bit like someone provide an automotive forum but saying members can't discuss a particular manufacturer because the forum provider had a warranty argument with that manufacturer.
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speaking for myself i do believe that the oss should be treated no different than the rest of the series, the final decision of course is up to Evan.
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The Director of marketing asked for us to delete the OSS stuff on the site when he said the deal was over.
here is the exact words: I will allow you to delete all forms of information that you and I, including OSS business from your site.
No one said you can talk about oss there is just not a dedicated forum for them.
Here is what was sent to me from the director of marketing
I hope that was simple and it has nothing to to with the COC Terms.
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speaking for myself i do believe that the oss should be treated no different than the rest of the series, the final decision of course is up to Evan.
Off the top of my head, I think I have to agree with hill3.
I also agree that Evan had to do what he did, to preserve the integrity of this site, morally and perhaps legally as well.
Now if I understood the "Marketing Director's" instruction to Evan, he has no business indirectly inferrring to the membership on this board whether or not we can have a dedicated thread to discuss the OSS. It's a free country and if I want to talk about how Ken Forth or Steve Robblee did in a particular OSS race, than I should be able to do so freely, providing I follow the rules of this board.
So I guess what I'm thinking is, Evan should keep an OSS thread for us to discuss what's going on in the OSS (if anyone so wishes to), it would lend to the integrity of this site. But the final decision is his, he does own the site.
Just my 2 cents worth. (Spell checked with 1 spelling mistake, I'm thinking my memory isn't quite as good as it was 30 years ago in grade eight). ;)
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This site is supposed to allow teams, crew members, FANS, and sponsors to discuss and learn about what is going on in the racing world. I think It would be very sad and unfair if all the people who enjoy using this site for the proper reasons have to suffer for the wrongfull doing of a handfull of members. In other words there should be a forum for the OSS just like every other series and track out there.
Maybe there is a few bad apples running the OSS but there is a lot of good teams and good people that want the series to survive and grow so the can do what they love to do and thats to be racing.
So for all of you that have a bad impression of the OSS right now I apologise for the actions of a few of our members but remember the OSS consist of hundreds of member not just a few. (DRIVERS, OWNERS, CREW and SPONSORS)
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As I said be fr I was told to remove it and I did. We will have to wait and see what will happen. We need some time too cool down.
This site is supposed to allow teams, crew members, FANS, and sponsors to discuss and learn about what is going on in the racing world. I think It would be very sad and unfair if all the people who enjoy using this site for the proper reasons have to suffer for the wrongfull doing of a handfull of members. In other words there should be a forum for the OSS just like every other series and track out there.
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I know we were going to let this be. However the post by Montess intrigued me. I was one of the members who received a PM from this person. After re-reading my posts I was confused as to why or how I pissed him off so badly.... Anyway glad to here members of the OSS ( atleast one ) agree with the decisions made by the mods here at CRO. However I see no reason the OSS wont continue to be discussed as in the past. You are right montess the OSS consists of many great competitors and one bad apple shouldnt ruin it for the rest of you / us.
Once again I wish the best of luck to all in the OSS.
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If members of this site take the time to recall the events of not just the past few weeks , but the entire year, midamerica was attacked just about every time he posted anything. Whether his cars were bashed , his choice of drivers , his numbers on expenses etc etc. He may have exaggerated at times ,but is that a mortal sin ? Everybody has a breaking point, perhaps he reached his. There was only one perfect human being, and we crucified him. I would like to see Dave be given the opportunity to complete the dream of the OSS being a success . He has earned his place in the Ontario racing community thru large investment ,hands on hard work , not to mention the thousands of dollars he was cheated out of a few years ago. He should not have acted in the way he did last week ,but who among us has not done the same in one way or another ? I don't know him personally but as a Christian , I forgive him and the least the rest of you should do is the same . I would like to think if he could he would apologize to those affected but I don't know him so I will assume for now.
I wish to repeat my statement of the post I made a few days ago that was deleted by the moderator. Perhaps the private message system needs to be removed from the site. Most of the banishment's that occurred in 2007 where as a result of misuse of this feature. With that being said, I say let's go racing boys !!!
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I agree somewhat with what your saying Duken. However that is the chance you take when you post on an open forum. If he didnt like the critisism, he should have stopped the posting or ignored the responses. To steal a saying from Ron White. He had the right to remain silent but not the ability. I know quite a few racers, owners and fans that read the boards on here religously and have never posted.
What has happened has happened we cannot go back we can only move ahead, which is what I'm going to do. I'm done with this topic.
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Perhaps the private message system needs to be removed from the site.
Hi Duken, how is everyone doing down there? Say hello to RW and her son for me, will ya. I hope they are doing well?
I don't think there's a problem with the private message system, just the odd person that abuses it, and if they do abuse it, then they should suffer the consequence.
Why should the rest of us have to pay for what a very few have abused over the years? I've used the PM on occasion, not often, sometimes. It's a convenient way to talk to another member on a matter that is of no interest to the group, be it simply to get another members unlisted email address or talk about another pvt matter.
At any rate, just my humble opinion, for what it's worth. I'd like to see this site grow, not be diminished. ;)
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Thanks Randy, I will pass along your good wishes to Teri and Matt. Perhaps you can drop by sometime this upcoming season .
As for the PM system, it is not something I want to see taken away in fact ,but there must be a way to control how it is used if necessary to weed out the abusers. This was just a suggestion for further discussion.
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duken i don't think anyone wants to crucify mid, and exaggeration is not a mortal sin, but exaggeration is what we've been dealing with in the racing community for a while and we're all sick of the disappointment it brings.....recall the ISA or whatever it was called, how many times have we been promised big time shows, tracks, and events and have been let down.
By his exaggeration he diminished his credibility and that of the OSS and opened the door to questions or comments of the nature he received (for the most part). the sad thing is he was building interest in the series just by being involved with this site, i was interested in what the OSS had to offer and was looking forward to going to a show this year. he didn't need to promise a 40 car field or anything like that to gain support.
he should also realize that no matter what you do, there will always be someone trying to sh*t talk or be a devils advocate, or be jealous or just in a bad mood that day or whatever, and that will never change so accept it and move forward. people are people. answer the reasonable questions and don't get sucked into personal battles regarding an opinion whatever you do. if you are trying to sell something and you are the spokesperson for an organization, don't bite the hand that feeds you. agree to disagree at worst with those who's support you wish to gain , and prove them wrong when the time comes.
unless the OSS will go belly up if joeshmoe thinks there will be 20 cars in the field, let joeshmoe think that and just do your work and see who is right on raceday. for one joeshmoe you convince, there are 5 more who aren't, and that's the hard part about building something as he found out.
someone said it right when they said he should have predicted a more modest number and anything more is then seen as a success.
i respect what he is trying to do for the sport but he just wasn't cut out to be representing a series. build it yes but let someone else deal with this end of it if it's making him so pissed off that he's burning his bridges.
i will forgive him but i feel that if the OSS doesn't move him to a different role they are doomed.
the best was when speedwaynews said.... "i agree with you mid"....that's a classic!
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Actually, talking about this stuff is a good thing.
As far as an OSS dedicated thread, that's ultimately up to the admin, but I'd guess that if enough people want to discuss the OSS than there should be a place for it. And given the fact that this site was initially created with a heavy slant toward CASCAR, its natural that there's lots of guys here that have an interest in the OSS. In no way would we try to stifle anyone from talking about the series just because of one loose screw.
Most of us here are racing people. Maybe not drivers or crew, but we understand the business. To try and stifle any discussion of the OSS, as well as being draconic, would be a travesty to all those teams, drivers, officials and fans that are trying to make the OSS work.
This site, for better or for worse, is all inclusive. We've opened forums for so many different tracks and series that its almost impossible to keep them all straight. I think we'll still have our OSS forum too. (Frankly we almost have to...the way the boards are set up now, if we didn't have a dedicated board, no one would be able to find the thread again once it slips off the top 10 list on the main page.)
Anyway, I might wait till closer to the beginning of the season, but I think we'll see an OSS forum yet. AutoAssembler is right. They can't tell us we can't have an OSS forum.
In other notes, Duken brings up the PM system. All I can really add is that we may put an amendment on the CoC about abuse of PMs. As it stands, the PM system here is integral to what we, mods and admin, do. So it has to be active for us to use it.
Having said that, I feel the PM system is important for members to have dialog with one another, dialog that doesn't necessarily belong on the discussion boards. As we've said before, we really don't care if you swear in a PM, as long as you're not being abusive to other posters. In real life and in mixed company, you might huddle over in the corner to tell a dirty joke (unless you have no class) Thats what PMs are for. On the main board, the world is watching, so you have to behave accordingly.
The PM system is supposed to be used for just that, personal messages: The ones that are sometimes so annoying when they come up in the middle of a serious thread...they go something like "Hey so and so....haven't seen you in a while...how's the kids...give my love to Aunt Betty"
We frankly wish that the PM feature was used more often, so the Personal Message feature is likely going to stay.
As I've said though, we'll do up an amendment for the CoC, just so we're all clear what the rules are.
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Evan and everyone else...
While I haven't said much on here lately... I usually found out what was going on after the fact, the fact is I have been following with interest. Sometimes the little brush fires happen somewhere else on the board where you don't expect them.
I would like to commend most of our members for acting in a responsible and respectful manner towards each other. I hope this continues. (especially the Sunset and Barrie boards where I have been known to spend a few minutes... :) I just thought I would mention this since this topic came up about OSS...
Best wishes to everyone for the New Year and upcoming season.
Thunder6