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Offline lovemesomeracing

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chaos cars
« on: July 07, 2009, 04:38:34 PM »
ok so heres the thing.......i respect the work it takes time and money to build a chaos car, but, and this is a big but..... chaos cars suck to watch!!!!!!!!!! they are boring as hell, they do have some points where they are mildly entertaining but for the most part just plain boring.
 if u were to take a fan pole u would find that this would be the opinion of most fans..
last race there were 3 drunk guys in the beer garden who loved it and the rest wanted it to just end.
also anyone with ears will notice all of about 50-100 fans at the most actually clapping for the winners or when they are introduced..
 Now granted the chaos car race in theory is a great idea but for the idea to be succesfull u would need 12 plus car field and get rid of that stop box. seeing how the car count is not in the hands of delaware , there is really no other solution other then to give the chaos cars the axe.
just an opinion from a driver and a fan!!!
wondering what others have to say!

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chaos cars
« on: July 07, 2009, 04:38:34 PM »

Offline choirguy

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 05:42:27 PM »
I heard that if more cars don't show up That they will be getting the Axe  and boring is right  put them out of missery  We can't take it any longer LoL

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Offline Snotrod

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 08:58:13 PM »
So what your telling me is that you want the speedway to "axe" a series that I love, and has me looking forward to comming out the track weeks in advance?  Its a shame you don't like it. If you saw the amount of Kids that I saw going nuts, you wouldn't be saying this. Its the kids that are the future of the speedway, and to "axe" an Entry level series that could lead to more drivers or more fans is outright Rediculous. Now that I'd had a taste of racing, I want to move up to Trucks or Enduro. See what I mean?

Just because you and a few other "Die Hards" don't enjoy it, doesn't mean everyone hates it.  I bet if you guys were to run one race, you'd change your tune real quick  ;)

Have a good night and I will see you all on Saturday July 18th!


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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 08:58:13 PM »

Offline choirguy

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 09:28:13 PM »
Kevin said he could use them to land on for his next Jump  All I see or here is nothing good  Kids are more excited to watch the other racing I believe then four or 5 cars running around doing stupid things  and as far as moving upa Thats what the Junior Latemodles are for.
 Thats why I live in Canada Freedom of speech is good

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Offline lovemesomeracing

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 10:09:41 PM »
chaos cars are not and i repeat not entry level....enduro is now and always has been entry level racing for adults...no offence snot rod its not the few die hards that dont like it...when u were standing on ur roof screaming when u won there was about 6 adults 15 kids and the announcer that were excited, noone else...u would get more driving experience driving go-carts at east park! and i am pretty sure they go faster then u do!!!!
i am not here to demean what u like to do just stating facts, the fans that come to watch enduro try to be late so they dont have to watch chaos cars and delaware was well aware of this so they put u in the middle of the event after our heat races so fans have no choice but too watch.
like i said b4. get 12 or more of those little cars on the track and maybe u got some entertainment but as it is right now,,,,GOTTA CUT IT OUT!!!

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Offline Shadowracer

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 11:06:55 PM »
I love em. I won't say they're perfect, but I love them.

And frankly, I've seen enough smiles in the grandstands when they're running that it makes them worth keeping. Just watching 4 of them try and navigate a 360 degree barrel turn at the same time is ripping good fun in and of itself, and it would be sad to see them go.

Is the program perfect? No. In fact I believe the class suffers a bit of an identity crisis. It seems to try and be more than it really is, and no one seems to know what they're really all about or what their purpose is.

There's 2 main problems with the Chaos Cars, and a 3rd smaller one.

I believe that giving the thing a title sponsor and having a points series was a mistake. The whole point of the division was to introduce something lighthearted into the program, much in the same vein as the train races were years ago. To that goal, it succeeded pretty well. But when you start talking about points and title sponsors, it makes it sound pretentious. Personally, my solution would be to scrap the points, and invest in a belt...much like a Pro Wrestling Champ would wear. You win the race, you're the champ, until the next guy wins one. Sure, its cheese...but what exactly is this supposed to be anyway? Winston Cup?

The other one I've already touched on before, and that is barrier of entry. I might know nothin about nothin, but I knew car count would be a problem as soon as I heard that the cars were going to need cages. That's a lot of work and expense for what the class really is. Of course guys are going to be mad when they've put the time and money into the car just to have it bounced around like a pinball...except its in a division where you're pretty much SUPPOSED to get bounced around like a pinball. Its a catch 22.

Now, the track HAS had demolition derbies in the recent past, and likewise it also hosts King of the Hill events with regular street cars, not to mention jumping cars through campers - so there has to be some precedent for "non-roll cage" stuff. There has to be. And if the format for the Chaos cars will not fly with the insurance companies unless they have roll cages, then its time to reconsider the format. Maybe it should just be a figure 8 race on the frontstretch only, just like they do at the fair.

And i think it IS time to reconsider the format somewhat. (that's the third one) Last Chaos race that I saw had about 8-9 cars and it was an absolute hoot. But we need to consider, where are those 8 guys now and why aren't they here? If its cost, then bring the cost down. If its not fun, then make it more fun.

And as far as entertainment value for the folks in the stands, take a good look at each race. Analyze what made the crowd react, and what didn't make the crowd react. Then eliminate the stuff that didn't, and figure out a way to add more of the stuff that did. Stuff that works: Cars with names/themes, Barrell turns, lots of zigzagging, and spinning each other out. Stuff that doesn't work: Stop boxes. (there's other ways to equalize...like having a blocker car.)

Stock car racing, at its best, is a combination of sport and show business. And this Chaos racing HAS to be pure show business, and needs to be thought of as that and only that. We have 4 other divisions to provide the legit sport end of it.

I know the format can work and really hope it does. I find the Snot-rod and the Baron and all those guys a real breath of fresh air. And as much as I love my buddy Snot-rod, I've no desire to see him racing all by himself. And I want the Chaos cars to be something that fans bring their kids to see.

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Offline lovemesomeracing

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 12:31:19 AM »
there is a million different ways to make chaos cars better i will agree to that..but i am in the stands when they race and have looked around and have not seen all these smiles u refer to!!!! there barrel turns are one of the least enjoyable parts of the race...slow and uncowardenated is not fun to watch..also exactly when was this race with 8 or 9 cars? some how i missed that!!! the figure 8 is a good idea. i agree cages and all that are completly unnessassary for this event aswell, would have alot more cars if they were as easy to build as a derby car.....delaware needs to look at a 4 cylinder class derby and realize those cars go threw way more crap and much harder hits then any chaos car ever has, this would be a great way to increase car counts for sure.
you could not be more right when u say the points need to be thrown out the window.
there is no real competition, and no one cares who the points leader is.
i apoligize if this seems to critical but i am at evey enduro race and i have friends that will not come becuz they have to now sit threw the chaos cars, was not so bad when u could just come late and miss them, and dont kid urself this was done by many ppl.
make it more entertaining soon or give it the boot!

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Offline jworacing

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2009, 06:33:16 AM »
Well track side the drivers and the crews seem to enjoy the Kaos cars. The do provide some entertainment value and I beleive the fans enjoy them as well. And remember when you have a "last show" some fans will go home anyway just to beat the mad rush out of the gates. I've seen this during Late Modle features!!!
Points are nescessary for the guys in the division, it gives them incentive. Some across the board payout would good as well.
Change the time so the younger kids are alert and able to enjoy the show, thats what the parents want occupied kids! Lets run the kaos between heats and features! this gives the the other divisions more prep time and people time to buy more hotdogs if they don't like the Kaos stuff. I dunno it sells itself. Just my thoughts on the matter

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Offline Shadowracer

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2009, 07:50:58 AM »
Change the time so the younger kids are alert and able to enjoy the show, thats what the parents want occupied kids! Lets run the kaos between heats and features! this gives the the other divisions more prep time and people time to buy more hotdogs if they don't like the Kaos stuff.

This too. Big Time. At least if they're on on Friday night anyway.

Of course, doing these guys before the features leaves us with crap-dropped-on-the-speedway issues too - which is probably why they run mainly with the enduros.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

As far as when was this 8-9 car race, it was last year getting toward labor day. there was the Baron and Snotrod, as well as Kramer, Fred, One Eyed Purple something or other, one that looked like a cop car, one bright orange one, Kazakstan Crunch...there was a bunch of em. And the crowd was into that one too.

Sorry lovemesomeracing, there's always going to be a contingent of fans that don't like this stuff, but there's lots that do. Like any other form of racing, sometimes its a great race and sometimes its a bit of a snoozer. Friday was the latter for sure, no argument there. Going the whole track didn't help, but they needed pit road this time to set up the ramp jump. Chalk it up as an experimant.

But to write the program off as of now is just a little hasty. It is still a work in progress.

As an aside: Frankly, I commend the guys that have been showing up. Guys like Snot-rod and Baron etc have added a little bit of a family vibe to the show, and some extra color to the culture of the speedway. They've definitely gone a little ways towards changing the formerly very stuffy serious-racin-only here nature of the place.



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Offline Racer43

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2009, 09:29:24 AM »
Entry level racing? Are you serious? I agree Delaware doesnt have alot to offer other than the juniors as far as entry level goes but to call these things that is a stretch IMO.
Yes I think some of us would change our tune if we got the opportunity to drive one. I'm sure there fun to wheel around but entertaining to the fans is another question. Snotrod build or buy an Enduro I'm certain you will be more satisfied at the end of the day. Where did these other four or five cars go and why arent they coming out to play?

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Offline charger

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2009, 10:50:34 AM »
 ;)hey snot rod they said the same things about the 4cyl racing 10 years ago when we started, "if you build it they will come"  ;D

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Offline Tire Pressure

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2009, 11:07:07 AM »
I dont think they should "Axe" the Chaos cars, but they do need to do something with them. Ya the car count is down (not sure why). If they had more cars everytime out , it would be a hell of alot more exciting. I do know onething though, i have 2 boys 14 & 11 and they love it. It made there night last friday when they got to go down in the pits after racing and get a pic w/ Snot Rod and sit in the car as well. Thats all they talked about for the last week. They actually liked that more then getting a pic with the feature winner of the night with the trophy!!

So for thoose that don't like the Chaos Cars, while they are on ......GO grab a extra hotdog or something to fill in your time , while my boys enjoy the highlight of there night .....The Chaos Cars!!

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Offline John

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2009, 03:45:09 PM »

Iíll check in for a moment here to talk a bit about the Chaos Cars.  I know this is an Ontario-wide board now, so I think itís worth talking about this program, to speak to some of the comments, and perhaps come to an understanding.

First off, to terminate a rumor: the speedway does not have plans to "axe" the Chaos Cars.  While I appreciate the criticisms of the posters above, I will respectfully disagree with their comments regarding the entertainment value of the class.

Read the posts above, then review this video from the event itself.  Be entertained.  Post here what you think of the video.  While not for everyone, I think youíll find that barrel turns are anything but boring:

Cars Delaware Speedway July 3, 2009 Highlights[/url]

In my experience it is much easier to destroy then to create - - nobody said the Chaos program would be easy, but for many of the reasons outlined above, it is a great program.  Twelve different teams made the choice with us to create, and we will continue to push forward with expanding the program.

The goal of the program was to put forward a product that was <<radically>> different from any other program offered at the speedway.  As Trevor (Shadow) and other posters have pointed out, the faces of the children around these cars is something very special.

My message is simple; we will continue to develop this program, bring up the entertainment value, and have fun while doing it.  I have never worked with a more enthusiastic group of drivers, so passionate about what they are doing.  There is no doubt in my mind we will be successful in building the group to a successful level.

That being said, it is no surprise that the division faces challenges.  It has been a little over a year since the series was launched.  If we were afraid of challenge - - well weíd all just stay home every Friday!  I would argue, that it is in fact the challenges that make this worth doing.

The car count challenge is one that I (and the drivers) am keenly aware of and am taking steps to move forward.  It was the goal to exit last year with four solid vehicles - - we more then doubled that.  Keeping them on the track this year, has been a different type of challenge.  I will be speaking with each registered competitor before the next event to attempt to identify where the gap is in the program, with the aim of closing that gap.

What incentives would get the cars to the track every race?  Perhaps the members here have some ideas.  I would love to hear them - - we used the GRR board extensively during development of this class.  While those threads are gone, I found some of the best ideas for the class came from the community.

We know one challenge is a strange oneÖ  Tow vehicles.  Need more proof that itís entry level?  Look at how these vehicles are being brought in.  Tow bars, tow straps, borrowed to trucks, open trailers.  Now thatís grassroots.  In fact, the previous event would have had 5 cars, had it not been for a tow vehicle failure.  Iíll be speaking with the teams about this matter as well, trying to find a solution so that vehicles arenít barred from participating because of tow problems.

With regards to the barrier to entry - - when the program was designed, roll cages and safety equipment were put in place for the safety of the drivers.  I read the reports of driver injuries at other speedway in  four cylinder cars and wanted to prevent it from happening here.

The competitors in the division who have been in impacts will tell you theyíre glad they have those cages.  It is a minimum level of safety for these vehicles to ensure the division remains fun and that the drivers have a level of protection while navigating the courses.  The cages and safety equipment also play another factor; education.  The stakes in a chaos car are a lot lower than in an enduro car, because the speeds are so much lower.  The goal of a chaos car is to spend your money on safety equipment, not performance, to learn how to build and wear safety equipment properly.  This way when/if a driver moves up, itís one less new thing for them to learn.

I would encourage people interested understanding more about what this class is about to review the Red Baron mini-series.  What youíll see is a group of university students using their basic, basic knowledge to put together a safe and fun Chaos Car.  These individuals would not have had the technical knowledge to construct an Enduro carÖ  Today, they do.  Two high schools have built these vehicles (Beal & Medway) - - Beal has built two (Raider has yet to debut, it rained out at its opener).  Each documentary video has received around 2,000 views, and has been used by drivers in the division in the construction of their cars.

I hope this clarifies a few things about the Chaos Cars.  Again, while I appreciate the comments of the initial poster, I respectfully disagree.  What I do agree with is many of the constructive comments posted here, and look forward to seeing what new things we can do to take the class to the next level.

I would value any comments from Delaware posters as well as posters from other speedways.

All the best,

-John Houghton
Chaos Director
Announcer / PR
Delaware Speedway
(519) 652-5068 Ext 201


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Offline Shadowracer

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2009, 05:07:29 PM »
Aw man...you left out the "It was a SLOBBERKNOCKER" victory lane quote.

BTW, sounded like more than 3 people cheering to me.

 ;)

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Offline Hardcore Racing

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Re: chaos cars
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2009, 06:41:40 PM »
What a hoot.. That looks like fun. I have always liked when tracks add a few extras like this to their evenings line up. I love our 4 cylinder, thunder and late model division but it can get mundane after a while.

Every once in a while we have a touring series which adds to the excitement but I always remember as a kid the thing I loved the most were things like the daredevils doing T-bones and stunts. I am sure to the racing purist this may seem like a carnival but I secretly think I like it sometimes when the evening has a carnival atmosphere. Our track is packed for the demo derby and the track phone used to ring off the wall asking if the school bus races were still on for the evening. 

If these cars are built so well why don't you have them running in a 4 cylinder class with this being an add on they can compete in for fun once in a while?

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