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Author Topic: Another year year of history on the crate vs built issue  (Read 3191 times)
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K-man
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 07:31:56 PM »

That is an excellent point bfe, and one that I have made over the last 3 off seasons. I would assume out of the box vortecs would make a minimum of 20 hp over open chamber heads (lest we forget they are 64cc's)
 Leave the crates as they are, an economical option to continue/start out in racing, and let the builts run vortec heads.
In the event you have a crate and wish to make more power with it, declare the engine unsealed and put in a flat tappet camshaft and put whatever bottom end you want under it.  
I can attest, the lions share of the engine builders charges lie in the 40 year old cylinder heads, flat milling, installing hardened seats and screw in studs, bowl cutting, retrofitting to positive seals etc.
Not only would the vortec heads cure the cheating issues, they would also remove 1000$ + from a built engine.

My #1 complaint about the crates lies in the fact they are illegal in any class, vortec heads, 10 to 1 compression, racing intake manifold and roller cam. So even if they are sealed, they are STILL cheated up for any class they run in.

The 602 crate is a 9:1 with dished pistons and a flat tappet camshaft. The only roller engines are the 604 and the Kawartha ACT engine and both of those have flat top pistons.
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« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2011, 07:31:56 PM »

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Rob Hosking
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« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2011, 07:50:51 PM »

Oh snap! I just got served! Lol
Whatever, they are still sucky....
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ktr
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 07:52:33 PM »

"On the horizon, and this is just my personal gut feeling, is the elimination of the LLM and then turn it into a full blown Late Model division. If this is the case, hang onto your butt because something going to get jammed up there when that happens."

k-man
if you look at the rules of most LLM tracks sauble and sunset the two biggest, besides the name LLM the are already late models....when everyone else see that all its going to do is put more cars on jack stands in their shops long term
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« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2011, 07:52:33 PM »

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bfe
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« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2011, 08:20:59 PM »

With Sunset allowing the Dart head i'm not sure if you would see 20 more horse or not. Need a soild bottom end set of old school, darts and vortecs! Have some fun on a dyno.
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Taz
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« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2011, 08:29:23 PM »

I went from an $8000 dollar built to $4000 crate in SS class and just like K-man said if you can roll them through the corners they haul down the straight! Best compliment I ever heard, was I was cheating because I got my crate car working. Any day of the week you can bring any engine tech/build to go through my sealed crate, but be ready to seal it back up at your expense, because it's bone stock. Grin

I didn't really want one, but it sure is easy on the wallet to run them. As for cheaters, when they blow up tech should open them up and check them, then slap a big fine on the owner. It is one of the few things recently that has brought the cost down, and gear rule or rev limiter will also help. There are still other options to run fair crates, but it would take some effort and co operation by racers and tracks.
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K-man
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« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2011, 08:55:37 PM »

"On the horizon, and this is just my personal gut feeling, is the elimination of the LLM and then turn it into a full blown Late Model division. If this is the case, hang onto your butt because something going to get jammed up there when that happens."

k-man
if you look at the rules of most LLM tracks sauble and sunset the two biggest, besides the name LLM the are already late models....when everyone else see that all its going to do is put more cars on jack stands in their shops long term

Part of the problem is the tracks never consider why they went from Late Models in the past to the Limited Late Model. It seems as if history keeps repeating itself  but few are learning. I was talking to a racer on Saturday and he came up with a side of the story I never thought of. Few promoters have had to race on an average racers budget to actually feel the pain every time a rule changed or a division has been upgraded. Far too many racers have had to quit because they couldn't keep up with the added expense every time a new rule book came out.


I've probably said more than I should have and certainly more than I promised myself that I would say. Most of you guys are on the right track and now all you have to do is make it happen.
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ayjay
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« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2011, 09:08:58 PM »

We tried over 10 years ago to get the track owners to look at vortec heads in the late model-Allstar class. Our heads were not only expensive to prep it was even back then getting harder and harder to find good ones.
The vortec with a dish piston would keep the compression where it needs to be and we would be back to buying something off the shelf.
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