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Author Topic: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?  (Read 3392 times)

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Offline CanadianRacingOnline

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Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« on: September 30, 2011, 12:27:06 AM »
OK I have been to many tracks with Press Passes and today I was requesting press pass for a couple of my photographers.

I got a reply saying they this:

We ask that photographers receiving media passes, submit a DVD/CD to the track of the pictures taken in high res that we can use for promotional materials.

I have never heard of this from any tracks and if a track asked me if they could use one of my photo's I would say sure here it is free of charge but requesting a copy of all the photo's I have taken?

I was shocked and replied can I watermark them and the reply I got was yes as long as the watermark is not across the image making them useless. First thought comes to my mind if they did use one of the photo's my watermark would be cropped out.

I guess that track will not get any free promotions from this site, as I just use the photo's to share with users here. I also guess I will not be attending this track as well as maybe they will stop me on the way and ask me to dump my Camera's Media Card before they will let me out of the track. (Just joking but who knows)

File this under Strange Requests.







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Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« on: September 30, 2011, 12:27:06 AM »

Offline CanadianRacingOnline

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2011, 11:06:02 AM »
The photographers already made plans to go somewhere else. I guess they weren't impressed with it either.

I have been doing this for 12 years now and this has never happened. I guess I was more shocked then anything else and it caught me off guard.

I could see if they were paying me to take photos to get a copy but just for giving press passes?

All tracks I have asked were greatfull that I wanted to attend the track and take photos as they know it's free promotion for the track.

I usually do a write up on the track if it's the first time there. I'm not asking for the royal treatment or anything like that. I'm not like that.

Tracks really need to get up to date with the times and understand the more free press they get the more people will come to the tracks to watch races.

I notice this trend with tracks and series. They don't put out any press release or anything to let people know they exist.

It's a shame as there is a ton of good tracks and series in Canada but they are the best kept secrets you could say.

I try my best at CRO to get them to send me stuff on the series or tracks but a lot of times I don't even hear back from them.



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Offline John

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 02:47:46 PM »
OK I have been to many tracks with Press Passes and today I was requesting press pass for a couple of my photographers.

I got a reply saying they this:

We ask that photographers receiving media passes, submit a DVD/CD to the track of the pictures taken in high res that we can use for promotional materials.

I have never heard of this from any tracks and if a track asked me if they could use one of my photo's I would say sure here it is free of charge but requesting a copy of all the photo's I have taken?


Evan, I’m not certain from which speedway you requested the credentials, but to add a bit of information from a speedway’s position:

The request for a CD / DVD of the photos is very common (if not industry standard) in grassroots stock car racing, and has been standard at our track for a number of years for most outlets (depending on media type).

It is usually seen as a cooperative gesture where the media and the speedway work together to accomplish their goals.  In this case, the speedway opens its doors to allow the media access for coverage, the media outlet helps the speedway by sharing some of the material gathered.  This is especially useful for outlets with low-circulation as when the photo is used with a photo-credit, it can drive traffic to that outlet and help it grow in reader / viewership.

Instead of asking for a full CD, I’ll often ask photographers to send in a few of their ‘best’ shots they feel showcased the event.  I’ve never had a photographer carry issue with this policy.  While you may be willing to provide a photo upon request – how can the speedway request a copy of a photo it has not seen?

Because of the volume of requests, it can be difficult for a speedway to determine who is a ‘legitimate outlet’, and who has (as the other poster put it), simply purchased a high-end camera and started a word-press blog to get free entry to races.  Requesting of copies of the photos is a way that a track can establish a relationship with the media outlet, one that if handled correctly becomes a win-win for everyone.

-John Houghton
Delaware Speedway PR
(519) 652-5068 Ext 201



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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2011, 02:47:46 PM »

Offline CanadianRacingOnline

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2011, 03:14:02 PM »
This is why we opened our classifieds site at http://www.RacingClassifieds.ca.

Many people have thanked me for this free site where they can post their ads and not only be seen at their home track but from racers all over Canada.

Yes they need to understand that fans need to get results as they can only attend one or maybe to races a weekend. So results and pictures from a track gives them a picture of what happened and if there is no picture they don't attend the tracks.



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Offline John

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2011, 04:14:29 PM »
... As a quick note of reminder - - Delaware Speedway was not the track Evan requested credentials from.  I am simply answering these as a PR representative who is active on the boards to try to help add some insight into a topic rarely discussed: speedway media rights.

These posts are detailed, but a part of my job is spent handling these rights and doing so in such a way that benefits media through partnership, as well as improves the promotional reach of the track.

The calling card of a site like this is the online presence, not a photo portfolio. Would the track ask The Toronto Star to submit all their photos? They might be agreeable to do so if you pay part of the costs they are paying to their freelance/contract photographers, but otherwise not a hope in heck you are getting them for free.

Without getting into the details of specific speedway policy -- no.  The track likely would not require a large print outlet to provide photos, as in general, we have specific use guidelines for photos taken by those outlets.  We enjoy a great deal of cooperation with local newspapers and because of this relationship I am 100% certain we would enjoy their cooperation for a photo request.

You have an online print media here, requesting to take some photos to compliment the FREE press they are giving you.

Which is all the more reason to work together to promote the event.  Speedway's have invested interest in the continued success of message boards.  Delaware is one of the tracks that has invested notable resources in doing so.

Declining to provide copies of the photos would likely not result in the cancellation of a media pass, but if the media and the track are in a cooperative relationship, there is generally no issue.

I’ll suggest that is of far more benefit, and different, than the shutter bug/post on their website no one follows, sort who would actually give away their work (pictures) for free.

Absolutely there is a big difference - - but it can be difficult to determine what that difference is.  My argument is that it is not out of line for a speedway to request copies of photos taken at speedway-run events as part of a media agreement.  While they may not always receive these copies (workload on photographers etc...), they do retain the rights to do so under such an agreement.

But yet they setup roadblocks asking for free stuff that no professional is going to give away, and irrelevant to the services offered?

Professional outlets are familiar with media agreements and licensing, they are not roadblocks, they are part of the business.  Even speedway competitors are loosely familiar with it (at least at Delaware) as each of them signs a media release as part of their competitor licensing which allows images of them and their vehicles to be used in speedway promotions.

Media agreements are about developing relationships with media partners that are long-lasting and benefit both parties.

In licensing media, certain rights are given to those outlets to cover the events.  They benefit through having material to publish to increase their readership, the track and it's drivers benefit through this additional coverage and awareness.  Within that partnership there is room to maneuver to ensure that no unreasonable burden is placed on those covering events, but the request to see the photos and potentially use them in promotions is not unreasonable within a standard speedway media license.

To use a real example:

Last season a group of photographers came out to the track.  They were provided free admission to the speedway under a standard media license.  This license granted them the rights to post photos in their gallery and allowed the track to have high-resolution copies to use in speedway promotions.  The CD’s came in several weeks later - - one photo was used as the poster picture for the ISMA Super Modifieds (with photographer credit).  Had the track not made the agreement with the photographers in advance of the photo being taken that promotional photo would not have been available for use.  The photographers were able to use their media rights to use the photo in their gallery, the speedway was able to exercise its rights in using the picture as part of a promotion.

I hope this is helpful in understanding how media licensing works (at least at one track).  It's designed to be a system that works for everyone involved, and is one that we often discuss and make changes to based on suggestions from media outlets we work with.

-John Houghton
Public Relations
Delaware Speedway
(519) 652-5068 Ext 201


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Offline CanadianRacingOnline

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2011, 05:05:09 PM »
As I said it caught me by surprise. My photographers are volunteers and asking them to provide a CD of all images taken sounded a bit off.

Say they take 500 shots and they requested high res so this would be a DVD. OK Cost of DVD & Mailing is say about $5.00 not much but time consuming. We do this for the users and the tracks not making money off it.

I have no problems with sending a few photos from the event via email but requesting a copy of every photo taken on a CD/DVD.

As I said before I have been to many tracks and not one has asked this.

I have been to Delaware and John is a great ambassador to the Speedway. John did more then I expected the track to do and I did a write up on how impressed I was with the track. same with Sunset, Kawartha and others.

If anyone of these tracks said Evan I like that shot you took at our track can we use it for promotions. I would say give me the email address and I will send to you.

I would love for a track to use a photo that was taken by me or my photographers.


We get a lot of new people that are not familiar with all tracks they can go to see racing at in Canada.

We have a lot of people that read the boards as guests that have come via search engines and having your track mentioned here helps promote the track as Sunset & Delaware are in the top 10 of searches. 4 tracks are in the in the top 10 searches.

OK lets look it at it another way.

I noticed tracks pay Magazine or Media Outlets to advertise events. I post these for free. Maybe I should be charging these tracks to post these event messages?? No this is not what we are about we want to work with the tracks and help them grow.


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Offline John

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2011, 05:10:18 PM »
Clearly by the length, depth and flexibility in the post, it’s a much different response than a generic "give us your pictures", period. I think it’s fair to say handled this that way CRO would be there taking pictures and covering the action.

...and CRO has been to a number of Delaware events in the past.  Arguably, through the Shadow reports, they're there every week.  It is possible that Evan could have received a much less detailed approach than the one taken by Delaware.  Our media policy is one that changes constantly but is designed with flexibility in mind.  It would be foolish to stonewall the media out of the event.  We work to find the specific concerns that each outlet has and move to address them.

There are more detailed / concrete examples of when media licensing and cooperation becomes more important.  For example, what if someone is posting videos of all your speedway's races for the night on Youtube end to end with professional recording equipment?  Imagine if a concert were to be posted in such a manner!  It is important for a speedway to establish (just as other large entertainment venues, such as concerts) that the rights to the event are with the speedway itself.

Declaring that the speedway possesses rights need not be threatening or overbearing, it's simply a fact.  Having ownership of those rights also means we are responsible for managing them.  This means we are very cooperative in how we give permission on those rights, to make sure they are used in a manner that works for everyone.

Quote
I'll change my opinion from all track are missing the boat promoting themselves, to some.

Guess a PR guy is a good idea ;)

I consider good PR a solid investment, yes.  ;D

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Offline CanadianRacingOnline

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 06:00:41 PM »
I remember one day at Cayuga Speedway when they treated the regulars photographers and writers that attend the track on a regular basis really bad because they had the Nascar Shootout.

They did everything for TSN and other big Media Outlets and treated the smaller ones like garbage.

I remember over hearing the big outlets complaining that the track was cheap not enough good food and not much free stuff. The guys from the smaller outlets were talking and saying they are not returning just for the way they were treated. One of these guys worked for PRN. (Not really a small media outlet) They said they have never been treated so bad like they were treated at Cayuga that day. Getting kicked out of area's because they were not from TSN or Toronto Star.

The funny thing was they got more coverage from the smaller outlets and it seemed the big guys were there for all the free stuff and didn't care too much about the event.

Cayuga pissed off a lot of photographers and writers that day.

I brought my brother in law with me that day too help out and he got so pissed off that he sat in the car while I did my stuff. He never did return to Cayuga as a fan and him and his friends have went to other tracks.

I have been doing this for 12 years now and I don't feel we are in the same boat as bloggers. I know we are not TSN or Toronto Sun but we do provide a lot of information to Race Fan and Drivers/Teams

The big media outlets only seem to want to cover these big events where we want to help the track and cover all events no matter how big or small. We do get a big readership on here and I myself have introduced a lot of people to the smaller tracks.

I guess what I'm saying is tracks need to work hand in hand with small places like CRO and there are a few tracks that do and it works out well for them and CRO.

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Offline John

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2011, 01:33:02 AM »
If we want to get really messy with that, as a driver do I not have rights to my performance on the track? I don’t recall signing that off to anyone..

Again, this comes down to cases as to under what circumstances the speedway would assert its rights.

Delaware Speedway has utilized a media wavier for at least the last 10 years which provides the speedway with all manner of media rights to images and on-track activities.  In fact it reads in part:

Quote
ADVERTISING AND PROMOTIONAL RELEASE: Delaware Speedway or its duly authorized agents and assigns, may use the applicant’s name, likeness and photographs of the applicant or the applicants cars, including photographs of the applicant or applicant’s cars taken during the event, in any way, medium or material, for promoting, advertising, recording, souvenirs or reporting any Delaware Speedway sanctioned events before, during and after such events, including but not limited to television and radio broadcasts, film production, video tape reproductions, website, internet souvenir sales and the like, and do hereby relinquish all rights thereto for these purposes.

If reading that release for the first time, it may seem surprising or outright shocking, but think about it for a moment.  In essence, this is why driver’s can be put on the front of the souvenir program each year - - or how the speedway can put drivers in the television ad.  It’s also how third parties like official track photographers and video teams are able to operate without having to re-sign every driver in the competition.  Without these basic rights, it would be very difficult (arguably impossible) for a speedway to operate.

----

Back to event recordings: The speedway has had cases it is keeping an eye on where entire events have been posted end to end - - not by a race team focusing on their own driver, but of the entire event in general.  Such postings, if done regularly and at professional quality without a media license, are not acceptable.  The underlined section there is key to understanding this.  Again, it’s important to take into account the overall circumstances of a filming.  Why is it being filmed?  Who filmed it?  Where will it be used?  Is it a one-time posting?  A weekly deal?  A media license answers all of these questions and helps establish meaningful partnerships with media in a way that enhances value for the speedway and its drivers, not detracts from it.

Again, the language sounds harsh and perhaps even off-putting, but there are very real reasons why these rights are controlled by the speedway.

You cannot walk into a movie theatre and record and entire movie and post it to youtube, nor can you walk into most concert venues and film the entire event in HD and post it to the internet.  While hard for spectators or competitors to admit, the posting of events in such a manner can be problematic.

Remember also, the ability for high-quality video to be distributed by the internet in any meaningful way is relatively new, within the last 5 years.  When I started in speedway PR, the creation of a youtube channel was “cutting edge”.

Alternately, the speedway controls the rights to live publication and broadcast of events.  There are reasons we do not live-post to twitter the blow-by-blow on track action or link up a live video feed (a common request, typically from fans who aren’t at the race track).

Media programs should enhance the live experience of enjoying local stock car racing, not water it down or worse, encourage people to stay home.  These programs should be aimed always at bringing people to the track to enjoy the races.

As pointed out by Wesley_Motorsports, the use of the term ‘media’ is thrown around quite loosely…  These are long, detailed posts, but they are detailed issues.  I am genuinely happy to see a discussion on this and will try to help out with any questions.  Media rights as held by the speedway have and do work for everyone - - but they must work within a framework of cooperation with media producers.

-John Houghton
Public Relations
Delaware Speedway
(519) 652-5068 Ext 201



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« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 01:35:36 AM by John »

Offline John

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Re: Providing a Track A CD/DVD of Photo's taken at there track?
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 11:42:08 PM »
My questions to that are,

How does an in car recording of the race, end to end even, and posted online, fall under the media license? This has become very common over the years.

An in-car camera wouldn’t (and isn’t) an issue, as it provides fans a different angle than what they see from the grandstand.  In-car cameras are an excellent example of new-media adding to the experience.  It’s not attempting to replace or replicate the spectator experience, rather provides fans the opportunity to see what things look like from behind the wheel.  We actively advertise drivers youtube channels that have in-car cameras, and often link to them from our e-mail newsletter.

If a fan were to approach you to post a recording of the night’s races on their blog, YouTube act, regularly, and as professional as one can get with a camcorder what would you be asking from them under the terms of your media license agreement?

The truth of the matter is that they would not be permitted to film for that purpose.  We do approach ‘professional-looking’ camera setups regularly to determine who the photographer is and what they plan to do with the footage.  Recently the track benefited from doing so, as the person in question was taping for a local television station and was not aware of all their additional media access privileges (infield access, tower access etc).  We made the contact and now have a relationship with that videographer.

Races at Delaware have ended up on youtube end to end before.  We are not issuing any kind of takedown notice for these, but we do watch for the setup to prevent it.

Now, this is important: differentiate between filming races for coverage vs filming and posting them end-to-end.  If a media organization was filming the races and then reporting and adding their own editorial content on the event, driver profiles, etc (read: Journalism) that’s a different deal altogether.  Also draw the distinction between filming a race for personal or team use vs posting an entire race event unedited to youtube for the general public.

Again, you can see where there is flexibility within media licensing, and even who would and would not fall under a speedway media license.  What is of importance is that the speedway does assert the rights to the events at the track, but does so in a fair and flexible way.

-John Houghton
Public Relations
Delaware Speedway
(519) 652-5068 Ext 201


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