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Author Topic: The death of the crate engine  (Read 25361 times)
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Pinecrest
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« on: July 24, 2007, 06:58:10 AM »

 I got an Email this morning from a person I know that they have received a shipment from UPS of a full set of GM crate engine bolts so you can open up and reseal a crate motor . For the poultry sum of  $140 from Dennis Boyd in Orlando you can now open them up and build them the way you want them .  I am told that if you don't want to do it yourself for  $9000 Boyd will ship you a Super Crate that will kill the $3200 crate you buy here locally .

 I had heard this rumor for a while but this is the first person that I know around here that actually got the bolts .

 The crate thing was a good idea but I figured it was just a matter of time until this was going to happen . After I see these bolts tonight for myself I will have more to say on this .
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« on: July 24, 2007, 06:58:10 AM »

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Thunder6
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« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 07:12:30 AM »

Interesting. I have heard rumors (and that is all they are) that some people have been messing with the crate engine anyways. Now they can cover their tracks... And here we are back at step one with everyone having built motors. Personally I think that is what the racers want anyways, not very many guys going with the crate these days. Going to be interesting to see what happens with the rules now. Will they randomly call back crates? I never thought much of the "sealed" idea, for exactly this reason. Too many people have access to the keys and sooner or later (almost two years later) someone gave out a copy of the key. Let us know whether they are the real deal there Pinecrest...
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FromTheStands
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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 07:45:47 AM »

Oh well, It figures an engine builder would f*** things up. If it does come to this the price of racing will go up again.
Thunder6, "not very many guys going with the crate these days"
Get you head out of the sand young man, crates are popping up everywhere. Some track have so few builts left you can count them on one hand. Every time one of the last ones blows up, the pit bunnies sing a chorus of "Another One Bites the Dust"

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« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 07:45:47 AM »

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dodgeguy14
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« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 10:18:39 AM »

Its follow the leader racing, cut and dry! went to Cayuga a few weeks ago to watch the crate Asa series and i left 75 laps in. I NEVER LEAVE BEFORE THE RACES ARE OVER. It took one lap to get single file then it was the most painfull race i have watched in a long time. I have heard the sunset llm show is fantastic(probably the only thing positive thing i have heard about sunset in years). And the reason it is good racing is because there is passing. It is not dominated by crate engines, from what i have heard their is a pretty even mix of built and crate engines. Funny that sunsets points leader runs a built motor. Anyways, if tracks would pull their heads out of there asses and even it up so a built can compete you might see some better racing. Sorry from the stands, but a cheap motor doesn't constitute good racing. I look forward to watching the crate fad die a slow painfull death. Real race engines don't come in crates.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2007, 10:23:37 AM by dodgeguy14 » Logged
DB71
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« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 10:27:25 AM »

I can see the higher classes doing this (eg. Late Model) but for the Stock classes why? Well even the higher classes, the crate is there for a reason to save $$$$.

Now the way I see it, this is just plain CHEATING nothing else, if this cranks your tractor (Cheating) then do it. Your just fooling yourself and you will get caught.  

My crate engine that is 4 years old has new valve springs this year, other than oil changes nothing has been done to it. Four years $3400 is a good deal, I  remember when it was $12 - $13K a year for an engine in the stock classes and the good teams would do a rebuild once a year. All the cars run with in .50 to .70 of one another at our track and the fast guys are the ones that get them to handle.

When we do get teched, our track will pull heads if they think there is an issue with a sealed engine. But, the worst is people hear rumors of people getting the engines resealed. Eventually it gets to Tech and then the engine can be pulled. Do you really want to risk it?

Heck, save time and money and just put in 1.6 rockers on the exhaust only, this will give you more power than the people that don't.

Again if you want to CHEAT go for it, but it just proves you can't make a car handel.



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FromTheStands
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« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2007, 11:12:32 AM »

Its follow the leader racing, cut and dry! went to Cayuga a few weeks ago to watch the crate Asa series and i left 75 laps in. I NEVER LEAVE BEFORE THE RACES ARE OVER. It took one lap to get single file then it was the most painfull race i have watched in a long time. I have heard the sunset llm show is fantastic(probably the only thing positive thing i have heard about sunset in years). And the reason it is good racing is because there is passing. It is not dominated by crate engines, from what i have heard their is a pretty even mix of built and crate engines. Funny that sunsets points leader runs a built motor. Anyways, if tracks would pull their heads out of there asses and even it up so a built can compete you might see some better racing. Sorry from the stands, but a cheap motor doesn't constitute good racing. I look forward to watching the crate fad die a slow painfull death. Real race engines don't come in crates.

So what's the difference when there's a field of built engines?? Could it be that not everyone is on a level playing field?? Tracks that have gone crate and just now starting to get rid of the single file racing. It took awhile for teams to realize you need to get through the corners when you can't buy straightaway speed.
I beleive the top series of racing have the means to equalize the horsepower available and it's become one of the top sports to watch. Have patience, the growing pains will come and go. It's up to the tracks now to stay the course on crates and give the racers asurface to run on.
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DB71
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« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2007, 11:17:28 AM »

How about all the teams that want to run built engines give the difference in the cost between the built and crate to the track they race at so the track can put in variable banking  Smiley

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« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2007, 12:07:03 PM »

I know that the only person I have heard of that has been caught with a cheated crate motor has been banned for at least one season and had his name posted.  I would hope anyone caught in Ontario would receive similar treatment.

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Pinecrest
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« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2007, 12:27:56 PM »

Its follow the leader racing, cut and dry! went to Cayuga a few weeks ago to watch the crate Asa series and i left 75 laps in. I NEVER LEAVE BEFORE THE RACES ARE OVER. It took one lap to get single file then it was the most painfull race i have watched in a long time. I have heard the sunset llm show is fantastic(probably the only thing positive thing i have heard about sunset in years). And the reason it is good racing is because there is passing. It is not dominated by crate engines, from what i have heard their is a pretty even mix of built and crate engines. Funny that sunsets points leader runs a built motor. Anyways, if tracks would pull their heads out of there asses and even it up so a built can compete you might see some better racing. Sorry from the stands, but a cheap motor doesn't constitute good racing. I look forward to watching the crate fad die a slow painfull death. Real race engines don't come in crates.

So what's the difference when there's a field of built engines?? Could it be that not everyone is on a level playing field?? Tracks that have gone crate and just now starting to get rid of the single file racing. It took awhile for teams to realize you need to get through the corners when you can't buy straightaway speed.
I believe the top series of racing have the means to equalize the horsepower available and it's become one of the top sports to watch. Have patience, the growing pains will come and go. It's up to the tracks now to stay the course on crates and give the racers asurface to run on.

 WHAT?

 Anyone that did not understand that you had to get it through the corner figured that out in 1972 when Billies (Performance Engineering ) built that 331 ci Chevelle and spanked all of us with those big blocks at Cayuga.

  Just about any knuckle dragger can figure out how to get a 300 hp crate in one of todays chassis to hook up and get through the corner Showstopper is proof of that . Now add a bunch of horspower in with different cams etc making power at different parts of the power band and you have a horse of a different colour.

 The top series is NASCAR  Cup and they sure as hell are not going crate anytime soon for many reasons but the main one is because it makes for crappy racing . If you want equal try a spec engine go cart class because short track stock car racing has never been equal and should never be.

 Please don't tell me the sport is growing  just because you see a bunch of people that bought Jeff Gordon hats at Walmart walking around when most places struggle to get 3000 people out when they were drawing 15,000 to 20,000 people  here in southern Ontario in the 60s and 70s

 Maybe you should start a series where everyone gets the identical chassis from the same supplier with the same shocks  and springs and the same set up in it and a crate motor that is the same as everyone else's and you can hold a big race called the Socialist 300 where everyones pit stops have to be the exact same amount of time just so its fair for everyone .

 Geeeez will you guys please stop trying to ruin my sport.
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2007, 12:57:22 PM »

That's your best post to date Pinecrest!
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Scott Fletcher
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2007, 01:44:29 PM »

VERY interesting Pinecrest.....i wonder how many people know about this b4 you? Could be a lot of crate engines with a lil tinkering done to them here in Ontario.
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Pinecrest
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2007, 02:08:09 PM »

.....i wonder how many people knew about this b4 you?

 Lots Im sure
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2007, 02:30:27 PM »

The top series is NASCAR  Cup and they sure as hell are not going crate anytime soon for many reasons but the main one is because it makes for crappy racing .
I wouldn't be so sure on that one. I know the "Engine of Tomorrow" project got put on the shelf but NASCAR's going full-bore on implementing a Spec engine for the Grand National divisions and tested a spec engine for the Craftsman Trucks a while ago...

Trucks to test spec engine at Martinesville: Bill Davis Racing and Roush Fenway Racing each will test a truck at Martinsville Speedway for NASCAR on Monday. Davis said the teams will use a spec engine as NASCAR explores the possibility of making all the engines the same for the Craftsman Truck series at some point. "On the surface, it really looks good because of the cost reduction," Davis said of a spec engine in the truck series. "The only thing that concerns me, not only my operation but a lot of truck operations are very manufactured-dependent for sponsorship. I'm afraid if the manufacturer doesn't have his engine in there, it's a spec motor, is the attraction still going to be there?" Johnny Benson is scheduled to test for Bill Davis Racing. Travis Kvapil is scheduled to test for Roush Fenway Racing.(Roanoke Times)(6-23-2007)

It doesn't make sense for NASCAR to do it, but then again there's a ton of things NASCAR has done within the past few years that haven't made sense....

As far as crate engines around here, I'm all for allowing them if it gets more people involved. I definitely think the rules for built vs. crate engines could be a lot closer, but both packages can definitely run together...

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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2007, 02:57:32 PM »

pinecrest,they did that for years it was called iroc. i seem to remember that it had some of the best racing in the past 20 years. irl has the same idea,poor example,but good door? to door? racing. i feel the best option is a crate/spec rule to work side by side. the slms in this area were spending 20000 to 30000 dollars for a engine,now they can spend 6100 dollars and have half the fuel cost. at the first newalta event,36 cars,crates finished first second third and fifth against big $$$ engines
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Pinecrest
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2007, 03:58:00 PM »

 I figured that someone would bring up IROC .  You may want to consider that IROC has run over 90 % of there races on super speedways over 2 miles long in the last 20 years The only other tracks were Fontana , Darlington and Chicago that are all about 1 1/2 miles . I don't know of any tracks that size in Canada and I don't see how you can compare that to your local 3/8 or 1/2 mile . They did run Richmond twice a 3/4 and both were punt to pass affairs and not exciting races to watch at all unless you like crashes. It is quite a different thing to have the best drivers in the country in an all star format who don't care if they tear up a car they don't own with no points on the line then what you are going to see at your local short track .

  I think the best comparison would be the New Hampshire race back in 2000 where they ran restictor plates on a 1 mile . Do you remember that ? Let me give you the run down of that race ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ .Not a single pass for the lead in the intire race and may have been the worst NASCAR race I have ever seen .

 I am not saying there is no place for crates but in the 300 hp configuration it really causes either gridlock or single file racing and I am not sure I like watching late models that make less HP then my pick up truck.
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