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Author Topic: car counts  (Read 26756 times)

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Offline Race8Fan

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Re: car counts
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2008, 04:21:28 PM »
Doherty nobody makes money racing, not even at the highest level.  If anybody is making money it is coming from sponsors not race/purse payouts.  At the local level we race for fun, it is great if we can enjoy our favorite sport with out going broke or sacrificing everything else life has to offer.  That's why I think what Barrie has to offer in there LM (really a LLM) class is the best deal in the country.  You can take a $20,000 (has been done for less) car and race 22 nights for the possibility to win $22,000 from the weekly purse and approximately $10,000 in year end points payout.  

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Re: car counts
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2008, 04:21:28 PM »

Offline Doherty

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Re: car counts
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2008, 04:28:30 PM »
Not denying that they offer the most money and i honestly thing they have the most money backing them ownership wise well except maybe Kawartha theres alota money there. Just I hope the new owners are able to turn a profit cause i would imagine that the money being payed out wont be offered again next year.

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Offline latemodel28

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Re: car counts
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 04:31:59 PM »
Well I would be suprised if Morrow took home $2000 cash.  This is not really a knock against Sunset as most asphalt tracks in Ontario have very low year end points payouts.  That's why the Barrie points payout stands out, it is much greater then Ontario tracks even much higher than the true LM classes at Delaware, Kawartha and Flamboro that require a more expensive car to compete for alot less money.  That's why Barrie is the place to race in 2008!

Well race8fan most of these tracks pay out $1000 to win. if the car count is good. There are also a lot of big races during the season that pay very well. I.E Grisdale triple crown series at flamboro. You say these cars are a lot more expensive but in reality they are not. The crate motor for the LM class is about $5000 and other than that the quick change is really the only thing that seperates the two. LLM can and may become just as expensive to race as a LM.

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Re: car counts
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2008, 04:31:59 PM »

Offline Race8Fan

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Re: car counts
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2008, 04:34:14 PM »
Not sure who supplies tires to Barrie, probably the same supplier to the other tracks in Ontario running Hooiser tires.  That being said it would be great if the other tracks drop there tire price for 2008.

No offence but I hope Barrie has more than one new LM car in 2008.

Couldn't tell you what the gate fees are at Barrie as I always go in the pits, just thought it was a positive for the new owners to drop the gate fee for kids 12 and under.

Please don't take any of my comments as bashing, it's nice to talk on this board without negativity, just real information and positive opinions.  I like all racing and all tracks, I just like to acknowledge tracks and management that are trying to make things better for racers.

Yah Canada just won gold!!!!!



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Offline Doherty

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Re: car counts
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2008, 04:38:27 PM »
Mike makes a great point, I mean Donaldson's sold there LLM for what 19,500, You can pick up most Delaware LM's for 20000-25000 race ready.

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Offline Race8Fan

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Re: car counts
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2008, 04:58:03 PM »
Latemodel28 what is the price of the 604 crate engine that Flamboro and Delaware LM use?  Yes you are correct when you say you can spend almost as much on LLM as a LM but my point is you don't have to spend that much, and you can still be competitive at Barrie.  The Barrie Champions car of Baker was an old Alstar car last run in Alstar several years ago by Derrick Downey car number 77.  The second place car of Mcloud was an old Cascar chassis that was purchased complete for less than $15,000 prior to the 2007 season.  So you don't need a new $40,000 to $50,000 McColl car to win at Barrie, which seems to be the case at Delaware.  What is the shock rule at Flamboro or should I say how much were the shocks worth on the top running cars?  What are the brake calipers worth on the top cars?  Not trying to be smart just don't know what parts you guys run for shocks and calipers.  Do you have a tire limit per night rule at Flamboro?  As for the weekly payout of $1000 to win not sure about Flamboro but Delaware runs a 50 lap feature on a 1/2 mile track where Barrie is 35 laps on a small tight 1/3 mile.  This makes weekly expenses less at Barrie.

You are correct Flamboro and Delaware run a few specials that pay good.  But there season end points payout is not that good.  So in comparison it is alot more cost efficient to run Barrie than Delaware and Flamboro.  I would love to see Flamboro and Delaware raise there weekly and yearly points payouts to reward there drivers/teams and help this keep sport alive and thrive in the future!

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Offline Doherty

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Re: car counts
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2008, 05:04:26 PM »
But in the end run Location is going to be the biggest factor, noone is going to travel and extra 3 hours for an extra 200 bucks.

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Offline Turn1

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Re: car counts
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2008, 05:11:23 PM »
You are correct Flamboro and Delaware run a few specials that pay good.  But there season end points payout is not that good.  So in comparison it is alot more cost efficient to run Barrie than Delaware and Flamboro.  I would love to see Flamboro and Delaware raise there weekly and yearly points payouts to reward there drivers/teams and help this keep sport alive and thrive in the future!

What's the evidence on the season end points fund?  At Delaware there is no Nascar license fee to offset and this year the top 5 drivers in points in each division along with like 4 crew members got free membership as well as free pit entry to every event they race at.  No entry fees!  They race for free!  THATS a good way to reward those that keep the sport alive.

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Offline latemodel28

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Re: car counts
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2008, 05:20:22 PM »
Latemodel28 what is the price of the 604 crate engine that Flamboro and Delaware LM use?  Yes you are correct when you say you can spend almost as much on LLM as a LM but my point is you don't have to spend that much, and you can still be competitive at Barrie.  The Barrie Champions car of Baker was an old Alstar car last run in Alstar several years ago by Derrick Downey car number 77.  The second place car of Mcloud was an old Cascar chassis that was purchased complete for less than $15,000 prior to the 2007 season.  So you don't need a new $40,000 to $50,000 McColl car to win at Barrie, which seems to be the case at Delaware.  What is the shock rule at Flamboro or should I say how much were the shocks worth on the top running cars?  What are the brake calipers worth on the top cars?  Not trying to be smart just don't know what parts you guys run for shocks and calipers.  Do you have a tire limit per night rule at Flamboro?  As for the weekly payout of $1000 to win not sure about Flamboro but Delaware runs a 50 lap feature on a 1/2 mile track where Barrie is 35 laps on a small tight 1/3 mile.  This makes weekly expenses less at Barrie.

You are correct Flamboro and Delaware run a few specials that pay good.  But there season end points payout is not that good.  So in comparison it is alot more cost efficient to run Barrie than Delaware and Flamboro.  I would love to see Flamboro and Delaware raise there weekly and yearly points payouts to reward there drivers/teams and help this keep sport alive and thrive in the future!

Race8fan the price of the crate engine at flamboro is $5200. I am not sure of the shocks that other teams ran but i know that we ran the QA1 rebuildable    shocks. As for calipers we run the same ones as LLM, single piston. There is no tire per night rule at flamboro. The tires we run are very reliable and can last 2-3 weeks for the outsides. Doherty makes a good point, a lot of the racers from flamboro and delaware race there because of location.   

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Offline Race8Fan

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Re: car counts
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2008, 05:24:04 PM »
Doherty you are correct a couple of hundred bucks will not make somebody travel an extra 3 hours.  But it is only 20 minutes from Sunset to Barrie so $200 bucks for 20 mins, okay 40 mins (there and back) is pretty good money wish my day job payed $200 for 40 mins.  Plus Latemodel28 mentioned most of these tracks pay $1000 to win, maybe Flamboro and Delaware LM's but not Sunset, Varney, Peterboro, Mosport, and Kawartha LLM, I think they pay between $500 to $800 on a regular night.  Somebody might drive/tow a little further for a substantial increase in year end payout or the chance to be acknowleged in front of a huge crowd of race people as the Ontario Nascar Champion, just ask Dwayne how much fun he had in Vegas.

As for Delaware and Flamboro I don't think any of the top teams would switch to Barrie but what about the 6th to 15th place cars that are running for $400 to $200 a night.  Surely a 6th to 15th LM could run top three in a LLM field, well maybe not.

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Offline slowel

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Re: car counts
« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2008, 05:25:06 PM »
When drivers are deciding where they are going to run,sure they think about the payout but I don't think it is a major factor I really believe it is travel.Most drivers stick close to the home track they have had in past.Also if I'm a 5 place car at my current track am I going to another track for end of yearpoint's fund which you probably not going to win anyways?

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Offline blkflagagain

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Re: car counts
« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2008, 05:48:00 PM »
 Just a side note to all this is another LLM that I could see running Barrie next year is the 20 of Dwight Brown. He personally told me that they were only at Mosport running the modified cause they had the equipment already! Now I noticed he quit running modified about half way through last season to run the LLM at Mosport and focus on the points in that division, and I know he really likes the Barrie track so I think he might possibly make the move this year but thats just my best guess!! I think Thayne hit it on the head when he said the LLM count should be virtually the same 16-18 cars thats the way I see it shaking out!! And the Baker car isnt Derek Downey's old ALSTAR car as far as I know Downey still has that car as I talked to him at the tail end of the season and he also told me he would consider coming out of retirement if he could find good and reliable sponsorship!! The car DWAYNE ran last year was the former ALSTAR car he himself ran in that series as well as competed in the LM division at Kawartha with!!!

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Offline Race8Fan

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Re: car counts
« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2008, 05:49:36 PM »
Latemodel28 thanks for replying on parts and costs.  So the 604 crate is $5200 as compared to Barrie's 602 at $3069.91 as per Flamboro supplier MacMaster.  On the surface shock and brake prices look similar, but I would hazard a guess that the top cars at Flamboro had a lot more in there shocks that you had in your QA1's, do your rules allow Penske shocks?  No tire rule, so the top teams or the guys with buckets of money can bolt on 4 tires a night, wow there goes the winnings!  You say you ran your outside tires 2 to 3 weeks how many top 5 feature finishes did the 99 car nave in 2007?  The last question is not meant as an insult as we all race within our means, just if you want to compare apples to apples between Barrie's top five cars expenses to Flamboro's top five cars expenses I think yo will find Flamboro cars spent way more money to be competitive.

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Offline Race8Fan

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Re: car counts
« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2008, 06:18:39 PM »
blkflagagain sorry to have to correct you but Dwayne's car was Derek Downey's Alstar car which Derek had purchased from Ian Bourque.  You are correct when you said Dwayne ran the car in Alstar and LM before he converted it to a Barrie LLM.  The car Derek has at home is his old LLM car and when I say old I mean it's probably 20 plus years old was once driven by JR Regan in the old LM sportsman days mid 1980's if I remember correctly.  That would be great if Derek came back which only proves my point that you don't need a high dollar new car to be competitive at Barrie.  Good luck in your sponsership search Derek!

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Offline racerfan44

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Re: car counts
« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2008, 06:31:26 PM »
Race8fan on your reply #20 you stated that Delaware ran 50 lap features maybe that was 3 years ago but if I am not mistaken they ran 35 lap features for Late Model cars last year

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