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Author Topic: Race Setups  (Read 13007 times)

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Offline boas51

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2009, 10:16:30 AM »
the 5 most important elements to the performance of a circle track race car
1 driver
2 geometry
3 setup
4 tires
5 drivetrain

most teams fail miserably in the first 2! ussually because of denial and lack of knowledge. everybody knows all about #3, 4, 5, and/or blame everyone else for cheating in 5, 4, or 3!
#1 is where 78% of racers get beat. #2 is where 98% of all handling problems come from. 3,4 and 5 don't matter in the least until you take care of 1 and 2.
how many times have you ever got your car "perfect"? neutral, very easy to drive, but were still off the pace? so you blamed someone elses fat engine, or your weak engine? neutral doesn't mean fast, it just means you found a way to equal front and rear grip, and being neutral, and slow, ussually points to geometry.

"or you can be like a driver i know from peterborough who pays someone $250 per week to do his setup and maintenance and thinks that 2 or 4 new tires per week is the answer."
that is a smart man! knows his limitations, and has corrected a possible weak area in his team. $250 is very cheap for a knowledgeable man. my routine maintenance schedule, for one car, is about an 8 hour day. i might be able to do a maintenance/setup program in 10 hours! at $250, thats a $25/hr shop rate, how many of you make $25/hr at your job, let alone charging a shop rate as low as $25/hr.
and you don't think tires are the answer? does the track allow new tires? if so, you should all have 4! or get the rule changed!

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2009, 10:16:30 AM »

Offline CanadianRacingOnline

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2009, 10:32:11 AM »
I'm not no racing guru but the big problem here is the cost 250.00. It's a lot of money to most teams when they get nothing for racing.



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Offline longstreet

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2009, 02:50:57 PM »
I'm not no racing guru but the big problem here is the cost 250.00. It's a lot of money to most teams when they get nothing for racing.


evan i think the point is its better to spend the $$$ than struggle and miss it yourself.

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2009, 02:50:57 PM »

larue

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2009, 10:23:29 PM »
the 5 most important elements to the performance of a circle track race car
1 driver
2 geometry
3 setup
4 tires
5 drivetrain

most teams fail miserably in the first 2! ussually because of denial and lack of knowledge. everybody knows all about #3, 4, 5, and/or blame everyone else for cheating in 5, 4, or 3!
#1 is where 78% of racers get beat. #2 is where 98% of all handling problems come from. 3,4 and 5 don't matter in the least until you take care of 1 and 2.
how many times have you ever got your car "perfect"? neutral, very easy to drive, but were still off the pace? so you blamed someone elses fat engine, or your weak engine? neutral doesn't mean fast, it just means you found a way to equal front and rear grip, and being neutral, and slow, ussually points to geometry.

"or you can be like a driver i know from peterborough who pays someone $250 per week to do his setup and maintenance and thinks that 2 or 4 new tires per week is the answer."
that is a smart man! knows his limitations, and has corrected a possible weak area in his team. $250 is very cheap for a knowledgeable man. my routine maintenance schedule, for one car, is about an 8 hour day. i might be able to do a maintenance/setup program in 10 hours! at $250, thats a $25/hr shop rate, how many of you make $25/hr at your job, let alone charging a shop rate as low as $25/hr.
and you don't think tires are the answer? does the track allow new tires? if so, you should all have 4! or get the rule changed!
2 and 3 should be the same thing,they are in my set ups!!

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Offline Racer43

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2009, 11:22:42 PM »
I agree with most of what Boas51 is saying. However i am curious as to how this mystery man from Pete runs. If hes not winning a bunch where is he lacking? Is it his driving, geometry or the guy charging him the $250 every week?
The last sentence about the four tires... if your track or budget doesn't allow for four new boots every week wont this will make the importance of the top three even greater.


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Offline boas51

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #35 on: April 07, 2009, 09:29:26 AM »
evan,
every race event, at every track, somebody breaks something that is a direct result of negligance, lack of knowledge, and/or lack of workethic/time, that many times costs way more than $250.

larue,
then why don't you say #4 and 5 are the same as 2 and 3? and why didn't you ask me why "body" isn't on my list?
geometry is related to setup, but not the same. as i stated it is MORE important than setup, and you should be keeping track of it.

43
thanks.
as i said if the track allows 4 new tires, you should have 4 new tires, if you can't afford 4 new tires, that's no other teams fault, don't look down on them for trying to race! yes, if you are competing against better tires, you better be on your game if you wanna be up front. but, simply put, if the stickers are on their game, you won't compete! but, as evan aluded to, we race for fun, not trophies



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Offline CanadianRacingOnline

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #36 on: April 07, 2009, 11:07:37 AM »
In your setup I think 1 is the problem. LOL


2 and 3 should be the same thing,they are in my set ups!!

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larue

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #37 on: April 07, 2009, 12:40:35 PM »
evan,
every race event, at every track, somebody breaks something that is a direct result of negligance, lack of knowledge, and/or lack of workethic/time, that many times costs way more than $250.

larue,
then why don't you say #4 and 5 are the same as 2 and 3? and why didn't you ask me why "body" isn't on my list?
geometry is related to setup, but not the same. as i stated it is MORE important than setup, and you should be keeping track of it.

43
thanks.
as i said if the track allows 4 new tires, you should have 4 new tires, if you can't afford 4 new tires, that's no other teams fault, don't look down on them for trying to race! yes, if you are competing against better tires, you better be on your game if you wanna be up front. but, simply put, if the stickers are on their game, you won't compete! but, as evan aluded to, we race for fun, not trophies


part of setting up a car,is making sure your roll centre is where you think it should be,and adjust it from there.If you dont think its not part of the set up,or call it whatever you want,so it be..i was adding my opinion,since this is a talk forum,,,why would i ask any questions,concerning your statement??You trying to give me a hard time??Like tom cook puts its....Iam down with that....lmfao


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« Last Edit: April 07, 2009, 12:42:34 PM by larue »

larue

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #38 on: April 07, 2009, 12:58:08 PM »
In your setup I think 1 is the problem. LOL


2 and 3 should be the same thing,they are in my set ups!!
Your right there,i over drive the car,all the time...its the only way to find that theshold. ;D ;D

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Offline boas51

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2009, 10:00:15 AM »
larue, don't get all big headed thinking i'm picking on you, i'm an @$$ to everybody! lmao

the reason i stress geometry, is because every part of your setup will be dictated by your geometry. you can not set anything in your car, without first knowing geometry, and everybody seems to want to start at #3, or possibly even #5.
for example, where do you set you toe and why?

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larue

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2009, 10:34:18 AM »
Okay,what do you call set up then??When you do a "set up",what do you do to the car??Iam just asking,to clarifty things...

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Offline longstreet

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2009, 12:31:13 PM »
larry you may want to listen to this guy, he knows his stuff and backed it up last year on the track in the west series. here is the difference to me. geometry is where you mount and how you hard mount control arms etc. set up is the adjustments one can make without getting the plasma cutter and re welding. one is a base line the other is a series of adjustments from the baseline.

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larue

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2009, 01:01:05 PM »
Well,everyone has their own take on things,myself i treat geometry as things like roll centers,frt and rear.Which can be adjusted very easy on late model style cars,thunder cars are just harder to do.
I would never attempt to set up a car,with out knowing where the frt and rear roll centers are,so i call this part of the set up.
I also include rear stagger as part of my set up,which boas51 has listed as #4 on his list.
But,we are all different.But i fully agreed with boas51 with the driver being the #1 thing to consider,and all to many times people complain about someone beating them and they are cheating,when the other guy drives 2 car lenghts into the corner further then them,and getting back on the throttle a car lenght sooner...

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eightball

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2009, 03:42:16 PM »
larry you may want to listen to this guy, he knows his stuff and backed it up last year on the track in the west series.

 Well if he is from the west series he must really know his stuff since everyone knows how stout those guys are when they come east ¦;::)

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« Last Edit: April 08, 2009, 03:45:52 PM by eightball »

Offline longstreet

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Re: Race Setups
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2009, 06:45:38 PM »
not the same guys, they would equate to the oss. you may remove foot from your mouth now.

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same as the old boss

 


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