Cascar entry form from 1999

[MID]

There are Teams down South getting 15-20 million, but that is not the norm anymore.
You can buy a top 10 Nextel Roller for around $20,000, rent a top notch motor for $20,000, and get a crew for $10,000 per race and go racing. That is a real cost which anyone can look up on the internet.
Right now on www.racingjunk.con there are Super Speedway cars for sale, complete with fresh motors, for sale for $45,000 and the cars are available from Roush, Evernham and DEI. You can buy a top notch Truck complete for $35,000 and Busch cars sell complete for around the same price.
I know several Teams that run for $25.000 per race and run in the top ten and have been doing it for years.
Two years ago Musgrave won the Truck Series Championship and the Team owner told me they averaged $18,000 per race in costs. For anyone in the market place I know where there is 6 Craftsman Trucks complete and have raced and finished at places like Atlanta, Texas, Martinsville and Charlotte, that you can own for $60,000.00.... thats for all 6 trucks... Call Harmon Racing down in Mooresville NC.

I will agree there are some Teams getting the 15-20 million, but they are very few and far between, and you can always spot them as they are the guys that fly around in there private Helicopters, and live on Lake Norman with there $300,000 boats and toys. They all drive $100,000 cars and they spend money faster then you can say IRS, but again, they are very few and far between. After talking with several teams first hand I can tell you the norm per race cost is $25,000 and that will buy you a spot in the top 10 in most cases, except for the Super Speedways.

As far as the Driver getting 40% of the winnings that is true in the case of the Earnharts, Gordons, Montoya's and so on, but the average split for a driver is down around 20%, and in some cases the driver gets nothing from the winnings but is paid threw his own sponsorship program.

       

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33675#msg33675

[hill3]

not to be pissing mid but the musgrave example where is that team now? did they not shut down the truck program right after he won the championship?name one team in cup,busch, truck,irl ,even cart that runs in the top ten CONSISTENTLY with the per race budget described above. hell it cost our west guys 1500 to 2000 to go from stoon to calgary on expense alone. i am not wanting to argue but a cant see the math,but i am willing to say i could be wrong with some hard evidence. i could see your cost matrix at the arca,hooters or lower nascar levels being very true. i think the one thing we can agree on is that the one entity that makes the most bling is NASCAR.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33678#msg33678

[MID]

Yes the Team ( Ultra Motorsports) did fold after winning the championship but keep in mind they were the oldest team in the series who started the Truck Series from its very first race ever and then competed in every single race until they won the Championship. Just for your information, when the team closed they had a 2 day auction, which I attended, and if you want to talk the cost of racing this was just an example of how cheap you can go racing in thje South.
Brand New- never raced chassis's sold for as high as $2500.00 complete and as little as $1000.00 , thats two thousand five hundred. They sold 2 cup cars complete with motors for $12,000 and $14,000 and one of them had never even seen a race track. The Busch cars sold for $10,000 and motors went for $5000.00. The auction was packed with the who's who in racing, and even with the amount of people in the know the highest bid was just what you see.

I was talking with Jimmy Spencer at that auction and he told me you could do a start up deal for the Truck Series for as little as $300,000 which includes 2 Trucks, 3 motors, pit equipment and even the hauler just by doing the auction buys.
When I told him that is what it would cost to start up a CTS deal he looked at me as if I was nuts, and when I told him what we were racing for purse wise he said with a little grin- " the air up there must be a liitle thin... You guys need to get more CO2 for your brains !!!"
Spoken like a true professional and I agree.
   

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33689#msg33689

[racefanincanada]

Hey Midamerica. Your input is always insightful, but I would not consider Marlin and Nemechek as Gordon or Montoya, when it comes to salaries. They were getting 45%.

Take care

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33690#msg33690

[hill3]

with your math that is still over 10000dollars to race per race with out any expense,crashes or failures planned for,but do racers get enough of the pie ? NO i agree 100% with you, but as long as nascar remains a private co. there will be no transparency and the teams will continue to get the shaft. it would be good to see cart payout with team owners running the series and how those %s work.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33693#msg33693

[RacerAJ]

I'm thinking we should all sell our houses, move to the states start up our $300 000 truck teams, and become millionaires...midamerica's plan makes it sound so easy. I really don't mean to bash Midamerica Motorsports but is your math a possible reason to as why you don't have any cars on the track in a mid-level series(such as Arca, Hooters, NCats)

As far as driver's pay goes, I get 20% of my weekly winnings/points fund winnings and no salary.


Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33694#msg33694

[MID]

AJ, The numbers I gave out are real and you can find that out by going to any NASCAR Team auction down south which happen about 3 times per month. As far as feilding a car in the divisions you wrote, we have raced in most of them, including USAC and the IRL, but I have no intentions of racing down south right now as the Industry its self is in a bit of a slump. Our Nascar CTS deal is 100% ready to go and has been all year but we have had no luck so far securing a sponsor and until we do the stuff can sit in the shop and collect dust.
We race as a business and until we can see money at the end of the day, its a better deal to sit and wait.
If we raced for fun I would go back to USAC as that is the best series I have ever been involved with and yes, it was fun.
As for your comment on selling your house and moving down south to become a millionair its been tried over and over again. The only people that make money in racing already have it, or they own the series, and the ones who try to copy them end up moving back home quickly, so dont sell your house- rent it so you have a place to return to....   

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33698#msg33698

[hill3]

aj here is another piece of math how do you make a million dollars in cup, or any other top series? the answer is to START with 3 million. hats off to mid for sticking with his guns, imnsho if it is a business and he has no sponsor it is the right thing to do, to go racing in the cts i hopes of finding a sponsor is one way to get to the soup lines. my only problem with mid on this thread was the math did not sound right to me, but we may define parameters a bit different.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33794#msg33794

[MID]

Hill3, I am glad you seen my point in this one, but I am interested in where you think I am wrong in the math.
Please show me where I'm out and I will fix it if I'm wrong, along with apology's. 

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33798#msg33798

[hill3]

the numbers argument i have with your original post mid was that you could run a top ten cup,busch or truck team for 35000 a race. second problem was that the top twenty payouts in tops nascar series could run a competitive team. could be i am wrong that happened once in the last century.lol

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33805#msg33805

[oldbill]

The cost per race quoted by mid might run a back of the pack field filler team in Busch or Truck. A competitive team costs many times that number, more than the purses & points fund.
Bottom line is that in those series as well as the Canadian series you need big buck sponsorship to be competitive.
Midamerica has run back of the pack teams in many series but he can't the big buck sponsors because he isn't a proven winner.
The Teams with proven winning records seem to be doing OK in the Canadian Tire series.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33825#msg33825

[MID]

Hill3... I said you could BUY a chassis from a top 10 team for $20,000.00 and I never said you could run in the top 10 for $35,000 per show, but you could field a car and in most cases make most the shows with a budget of $35,000 per event.
OldBill...You are 100% right when you say it takes a big sponsor to run up front, and yes you are right when you say we have not proven ourselves as winners as your case in point- we have never had that big time sponsor that floods us with money in order to win, although we have always made the shows regradless of the series were racing in, based on great equipment and determanation, and you can knock us all you want but at least we can say we have run on just about every Speedway that matters, have made every show except the Indy 500 because we crashed in quailfying, and done so against some of the biggest race teams in the industry, all without that big time sponsor or winning history.
I am not patting our back, but I will gaurentee thats allot more then most Canadian Race Teams have ever accomplished.

I cant understand how Arm chair racers always think they no more then real racers when it comes to real facts.
Numbers and facts are numbers and facts. You can look up anything you want on the internet today, including the facts I gave out. And as far as race teams not winning races and always running at the back there is always a 99% chance that it comes down to money and driver. Case in point, and I am not knocking the guy but admiring him for what they accomplished this year, Dave Jacombs had never won a CASCAR or NASCAR race and normally ran in the middle to back of the pack, but along comes Andrew Ranger and a pocket full of Walmart money.  In one season Jacombs Racing went from Zero to Hero !!

For race fans its always easy to point out Race Teams faults. You know why the car is not winning. You know why they cant find the big sponsor. Hell you even know when they should pit- take four tires- take two tires- fuel only.....
If racing was that easy, everyone would get off there couch and go racing and everyone could be a champion, but in the real world, real racers are a dying breed due to the pressure, the demands and the lack of money it takes to win.

Be race fans, but dont talk out of school before you do your homework.
Racing Class 101 starts now !!


Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6511.msg33835#msg33835

[hill3]

mid go re-read reply 12 and 15,that is exactly what you said. your ideas on motorsports i have no argument with usually agree with you it was just the math thing that caught my eye,but i am beating a dead horse here so i will let it go. i will not knock another's program people will do what is right for them whether it be a business or a hobby. good luck with your endeavours next year in cts oss and irl, maybe you could find a sponsors to come west for either a ct race or a west race,if that every happens give me a heads up.

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