Racing in Canada

[Thayne]

Evan...half the ppl n here are BSW ppl..everything is about BSW...or can be tied in...and right now we have moved from a brother of a racer tv owners and ppl that run the place without an allegiance and the place has gotten worse and according to some on here this weekend the bias is still there or worse. (i never thought there was one to begin with)

we are the best example for comparison...

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44827#msg44827

[CanadianRacingOnline]

I would like to putthat to the test that everything is about BSW and that half the members are BSW people but this is not the topic.

I guess these owners might be in a tough position as they enjoy racing their family members do and how can you tell them to race somewhere else? But then I guess If I was in this position I would tell the family member you better keep your noise clean as I will come down on you harder then the other drivers/teams. I guess that is why I don't sell computers to family or friends just to avoid the problems that may come up.

Evan...half the ppl n here are BSW ppl..everything is about BSW...or can be tied in...and right now we have moved from a brother of a racer tv owners and ppl that run the place without an allegiance and the place has gotten worse and according to some on here this weekend the bias is still there or worse. (i never thought there was one to begin with)

we are the best example for comparison...

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44829#msg44829

[Thunder6]

I just had a very interesting e-mail from an official at a track who has a family member who races.

I think he spelled it out quite clearly when he talked about a person's honesty and integrity.

I would imagine it would be very difficult for people in that kind of a position, because some people are always going to be looking for something that may not be happening, just because the racer is that person's relative.

I believe it does come down to the personal integrity of the individual.

And someone has to do the jobs where no one likes you. Especially if you do your job very well. I'm a moderator here, try to be impartial and fair, and still some people don't like my calls. I don't take it personally, and lose no sleep over it 

I do not feel this site is all about BSW. BSW members are very active here, but there are many others here who have no affiliation with BSW.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44837#msg44837

[CanadianRacingOnline]

I see it as a now win as you can't change people views if they have it set in their minds you are playing favorites.

I just had a very interesting e-mail from an official at a track who has a family member who races.

I think he spelled it out quite clearly when he talked about a person's honesty and integrity.

I would imagine it would be very difficult for people in that kind of a position, because some people are always going to be looking for something that may not be happening, just because the racer is that person's relative.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44840#msg44840

[all-in]

We race the Ontario Pro Challenge Series and have for 5 years now.
We are the only "female" driver team. #21
I think that we are the only series with a female co-ordinator as well.
Not only does she have to manage a series that has the one girl out there fairly but also has her 21 year old son racing the series,
as well as her own husband (founder of the series) out there competing every race. It must be a bit of a balancing act but I can tell you first hand that it can be accomplished and it is in this case. You can ask anyone who has been within arms length of the series and you will quickly learn that it is a NON-ISSUE!
Spencer is close enough to the series to back me up here amongst oodles of fans, officials, owners etc.
There has not been one incident in our 5 years that discipline was either heightened nor reduced due to complications from family members overseeing and ruling their own in the middle of any on or off track incidents. So my point is that not all family owned tracks or series should need to omit a family member from competition due to their own mismanagement problems. Maybe some cannot handle it correctly but I am first hand witness that it can be done and a blanket rule to disallow "ALL" family members pressiding over their own would be a shame and a real injustice.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44854#msg44854

[CanadianRacingOnline]

So you are trying to tell us no one in the series has it in the back of their minds that if a incident that involves the series founder or family member would be a fair call and not one made because it is a family member? I don't buy it as you may call it fair and I'm not saying you don't but if I race in a race and there was a call made and it involved me and a family member of the series founder. I know I would be wondering was the call made fairly or was it made based on the family member. This could be a call made that benefits both parties but it might not have been the right call as maybe I would have gotten something different if I was involved in it with another driver and not a family member of the series founder.

You have to remember I'm not saying all are doing this but what I'm saying is others in might be thinking it is this way. Big difference.

Just because some don't come out and say it, they might be thinking it.

There has not been one incident in our 5 years that discipline was either heightened nor reduced due to complications from family members overseeing and ruling their own in the middle of any on or off track incidents. So my point is that not all family owned tracks or series should need to omit a family member from competition due to their own mismanagement problems. Maybe some cannot handle it correctly but I am first hand witness that it can be done and a blanket rule to disallow "ALL" family members pressiding over their own would be a shame and a real injustice.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44867#msg44867

[SSWebguy]

We race the Ontario Pro Challenge Series and have for 5 years now.
We are the only "female" driver team. #21
I think that we are the only series with a female co-ordinator as well.
Not only does she have to manage a series that has the one girl out there fairly but also has her 21 year old son racing the series,
as well as her own husband (founder of the series) out there competing every race. It must be a bit of a balancing act but I can tell you first hand that it can be accomplished and it is in this case. You can ask anyone who has been within arms length of the series and you will quickly learn that it is a NON-ISSUE!
Spencer is close enough to the series to back me up here amongst oodles of fans, officials, owners etc.
There has not been one incident in our 5 years that discipline was either heightened nor reduced due to complications from family members overseeing and ruling their own in the middle of any on or off track incidents. So my point is that not all family owned tracks or series should need to omit a family member from competition due to their own mismanagement problems. Maybe some cannot handle it correctly but I am first hand witness that it can be done and a blanket rule to disallow "ALL" family members pressiding over their own would be a shame and a real injustice.

As someone who worked with the Pro Challenge series to some degree in my time at SS, I can 100% back up what Danielle says.  I've seen the calls made from the booth and there has never been any hint of favouritism.  Actually there can be times where it went the other way with management being harder on the related drivers (an incident with Ken's car getting all busted up and the officials not waiting extra time for him to get back out comes to mind).  But it isn't surprising considering how professional these guys are - the PC series is a total class act.

This thread reminds me of when the Putz family ran BSW in 1997 (or was it 1996).  The owner's son ran Street Stock/Thunder.  They had a weekly draw for a new race tire and, curiously, the boy would win quite often.  Now it could have been put down to good luck, but it combined with other incidents that made it awful suspicious.  Thankfully they only ran it for one year.

Bottom line is it comes down to integrity and (as was mentioned in the other thread) the lack of good personnel to do jobs at a track.  In an ideal world everything would be detached and unbiased, but that can be difficult to orchestrate.  Remember it doesn't even have to be blood relation to cause a problem; it can just be the owner being "best buddies" with a driver that can cause huge problems.  That is apparently happening now at a track we know and unfortunately will always happen. 

Mark

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44870#msg44870

[Junior]

We race the Ontario Pro Challenge Series and have for 5 years now.
We are the only "female" driver team. #21
I think that we are the only series with a female co-ordinator as well.
Not only does she have to manage a series that has the one girl out there fairly but also has her 21 year old son racing the series,
as well as her own husband (founder of the series) out there competing every race. It must be a bit of a balancing act but I can tell you first hand that it can be accomplished and it is in this case. You can ask anyone who has been within arms length of the series and you will quickly learn that it is a NON-ISSUE!
Spencer is close enough to the series to back me up here amongst oodles of fans, officials, owners etc.
There has not been one incident in our 5 years that discipline was either heightened nor reduced due to complications from family members overseeing and ruling their own in the middle of any on or off track incidents. So my point is that not all family owned tracks or series should need to omit a family member from competition due to their own mismanagement problems. Maybe some cannot handle it correctly but I am first hand witness that it can be done and a blanket rule to disallow "ALL" family members pressiding over their own would be a shame and a real injustice.

As someone who worked with the Pro Challenge series to some degree in my time at SS, I can 100% back up what Danielle says.  I've seen the calls made from the booth and there has never been any hint of favouritism.  Actually there can be times where it went the other way with management being harder on the related drivers (an incident with Ken's car getting all busted up and the officials not waiting extra time for him to get back out comes to mind).  But it isn't surprising considering how professional these guys are - the PC series is a total class act.

This thread reminds me of when the Putz family ran BSW in 1997 (or was it 1996).  The owner's son ran Street Stock/Thunder.  They had a weekly draw for a new race tire and, curiously, the boy would win quite often.  Now it could have been put down to good luck, but it combined with other incidents that made it awful suspicious.  Thankfully they only ran it for one year.

Bottom line is it comes down to integrity and (as was mentioned in the other thread) the lack of good personnel to do jobs at a track.  In an ideal world everything would be detached and unbiased, but that can be difficult to orchestrate.  Remember it doesn't even have to be blood relation to cause a problem; it can just be the owner being "best buddies" with a driver that can cause huge problems.  That is apparently happening now at a track we know and unfortunately will always happen. 

Mark

You are right, it is one of the toughest pieces of thread to walk along with out breaking it......My dad would get so stressed some nights, especially when I ran in '98 dealing with the whole "daddy's boy" BS....but what people chose not to see is that he was probably harder on me than anyone and then he also had to deal with the whole Tommy and favouritism mumbo jumbo, and Im sure there is someone going to go against me on this one but in all fairness to both Tom and my dad......they were friends long before he bought the track, the raced all over southern ontario together and even travelled to florida some winters with Bill Stephenson and Dave Harris, some of the old time guys, but one thing they both did was do the best job they could to be understanding that inside those gates and especially from march to october, there was no friendship involved in whatever decision was made.....I know there are non beleivers out there but what i saw behind the scenes comapred to what they saw are completely different, nights that my dad would come home from the track after the races and just put his head in his hands and sit at the kitchen table.....I never once envied him, just like i dont envy any track promoter, im sure the Shakell family went through it with doug when he was cleaning house in street stocks all the time. Like the great Dilley once said, "You have to be half f**king retarded to do this!" 3 weeks later, he wasnt an owner at Barrie anymore! Smart move Dilley! But in a nutshell, yes it is very tough to do those jobs, it takes a toll on your nerves an emotions! I have lived it.......but it can have its fun moments too! would I do it again??
DAMN RIGHT!

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[jcrashm2]

at Flamboro a number of the driver's mothers over the years have worked in the tower as scorers and on the lineup...you would always hear comments about their sons starting on the pole more than others or getting more calls going their way...and then the flagmen were related to drivers...just not enough people wanting to take on the responsibilty for the pay they get maybe...some may use the pay towards the racing bills since they are there already.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44883#msg44883

[HUTTERPOWER]

I think this is an excellent topic.  Thanks Crash for bringing this up.  My name is Doug Leonard.  I don't have to hide behind a name.  I am the flagman at Merrittville Speedway and I am also the race director at Ohsweken Speedway.  I have no qualms or thoughts of ruling against Pete Bicknell or Glenn Styres.  As a matter of fact during my job interview last year for Merrittville I was told by Pete Bicknell to never shake the black flag at him for doing something, if I do I might as wave it at him.  He says if I shake it at him, he deserved it and would take the black.

Glenn is the same way.  He knows he owns Ohsweken Speedway, but on race night he wants to be treated as a racer, not as the owner.  We are instructed not to talk to him on a race night because he is a competitor not an owner.

I don't know at other tracks how it is, but I speak for Ohsweken Speedway and Merrittville Speedway both.  There is no favortism towards these two individuals or any other individuals from the decisions I make on the track.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7661.msg44885#msg44885

[all-in]

This is a great topic.
Reading here I see that my point has been made.
It can happen for sure. But it is NOT conclusive that it always does happen when there are relations at the track.
There are over 50 members with 15 drivers at Ontario Pro Challenge that will back this up.
Drop by and candidly ask any one the big question and from what I read here at least half of you (non-believers) will be in for a real awakening.
Sunset Speedway June 21st with a 6:30 start.
And please do drop by the #21 for a quick hello.
Cheers
John

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