Time for a new class?

[cardriver]

People ,people please no...... Will you all stop and think about what crap is coming out of your mouths. The track and other tracks DO NOT need more classes ,the pie (so to speak) is only so big to draw drivers from and if you keep cutting the same pie into more and more classes you end up with smaller pieces (smaller fields) but more classes . Stop thinking like this  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take the classes you have. STOP the out of hand cost being spent on these things . The tracks and the builders have aloud this to get out of hand and you have priced your selfs rite out of it.... More classes will not help ,stop and control the cost on the stuff you have .... The end my two cents...wait for your replies on this one ...

Hallelujah brother.

This is the post to end all posts. You can follow that advice, which is the ONLY correct answer, or you can waste your time futilely creating a circus no one gives a crap about. Your choice.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112494#msg112494

[Wheelsspin]

Cardriver not you again,probably never been to Delaware.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112495#msg112495

[cardriver]

Cardriver not you again,probably never been to Delaware.

Actually I ran it again this year, one race, so I'd be guessing you are the one who has never run Delaware or any track

Since you want to talk Delaware, here you go. If I lived anywhere close to the area and wanted to run it because it really is a great track, I wouldn't run SS because $20,000 in McColl equipment is too much money to spend, not worth it due to COST. That leaves V8 stock and Trucks. I honestly can't tell you the difference between the two classes in terms of cost. Does a 602 powered truck cost more or less than a built metric? Can anyone tell me the cost difference between those two classes? I think it would come down to which class cost you more to keep up with what the rest of the field is doing. So what you have is 2 classes that do nothing more than SPLIT THE PIE

So there you have it, what pricing your racers out, then splitting the pie looks like in real world terms.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112496#msg112496

[Wheelsspin]

How is adding mini stocks splitting classes? If run in bone stocks and want to move up to the next cheapest class is enduro that will cost 7 - 10 grand to build if you can find a car . I know I can build a 22 sec mini stock for $5 grand or less. ps cardriver my family has been racing @ Delaware  back to 1957.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112498#msg112498

[dogxray]

5 grand or less you could get a truck and that would be a move up.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112502#msg112502

[cardriver]

How is adding mini stocks splitting classes? If run in bone stocks and want to move up to the next cheapest class is enduro that will cost 7 - 10 grand to build if you can find a car . I know I can build a 22 sec mini stock for $5 grand or less. ps cardriver my family has been racing @ Delaware  back to 1957.

Bone stock, enduro, chaos car, and now mini stock - you don't see a split there? I honestly can't follow all the classes you guys have there, such that I have no clue what is what.

Next issue, with like 10 classes of cars running at random times, how many night a year of racing do you get? There is no point building a car if it is only run 4 nights a year.

If building an ENDURO car cost 7-10 grand then you have some serious issue with a class being too expensive right there. That is insane.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112504#msg112504

[cardriver]

5 grand or less you could get a truck and that would be a move up.

I'd say that estimate is about a mile off. A 602 crate will set you back that alone.

What you can pickup someone's uncompetitive used up junk that wasn't and never will be competitive is not a realistic measure of the cost of a class. Or people are selling their equipment for pennies on the dollar just to unload it due to lack of interest. Again not the way to estimate the cost of a class.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112505#msg112505

[cardriver]

Still more confusing...

You have "open Ontario 4-cylinder" which is run about as many times as "bone stock" so doesn't that mean the track already has a mini-stock class?

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112506#msg112506

[Wheelsspin]

Word is they are combining v8 stock & enduro .v8 stock use 602 & enduro don't.that's why they split the class in the first place.cardriver now you confused lol .

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112507#msg112507

[notingtolose]

also everyone seems to forget is you can run a mini stock or mini stock type car in the enduro....if its around next yr

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112508#msg112508

[kevilay]

How is adding mini stocks splitting classes? If run in bone stocks and want to move up to the next cheapest class is enduro that will cost 7 - 10 grand to build if you can find a car . I know I can build a 22 sec mini stock for $5 grand or less. ps cardriver my family has been racing @ Delaware  back to 1957.

Bone stock, enduro, chaos car, and now mini stock - you don't see a split there? I honestly can't follow all the classes you guys have there, such that I have no clue what is what.

Next issue, with like 10 classes of cars running at random times, how many night a year of racing do you get? There is no point building a car if it is only run 4 nights a year.

If building an ENDURO car cost 7-10 grand then you have some serious issue with a class being too expensive right there. That is insane.

First of all there hasen't been chaos cars for years. Bone stock were chaos cars they just changed the name when they opened them up to the full track. There are no ministocks right now. So out of the ones you mentioned there are two classes Bone Stocks and enduro. If you cant follow that I feel bad for you.

Enduro has gotten out of hand, everyone knows that. Those cars are becoming more and more rare, and their also pushing 350HP. Far from a cheap class. This is why they will absorb into v8 stocks I believe.

5 grand or less you could get a truck and that would be a move up.

I'd say that estimate is about a mile off. A 602 crate will set you back that alone.

What you can pickup someone's uncompetitive used up junk that wasn't and never will be competitive is not a realistic measure of the cost of a class. Or people are selling their equipment for pennies on the dollar just to unload it due to lack of interest. Again not the way to estimate the cost of a class.

Secondly, a 602 crate is 3300$ you will need to add a carb and stuff to it, but thats if you buy a brand new one. There are lots of competitive trucks out there right now for 3-4k. I purchased one for 2500$ this week. I expect with the right setup it will be fairly competitive right out of the gate. It was competitive when it raced three years ago. 5K may be a bit low because of costs of tires, and if anything happens to your truck. However it is not far off.

Still more confusing...

You have "open Ontario 4-cylinder" which is run about as many times as "bone stock" so doesn't that mean the track already has a mini-stock class?

Less confusing.... Open 4 runs twice a year and is an invitational race for ministocks. They also allow bone stocks to run in this race (if their 4cyl). Gives them a chance to tune.



Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112509#msg112509

[cardriver]

First of all there hasen't been chaos cars for years. *** clip*** If you can't follow I feel bad for you

Oh really? Then what was on July 5th. It says chaos cars.. Can't say what was really there, but either way I'd suggest that shows its a bit confusing. And yes I do feel bad for you now.

https://delawarespeedway.com/schedule

And for argument sake what is even the difference between a chaos car and a bone stock other than how the race itself is run? And if you are creating 100 different classes then cancelling them, how does that help the guys that put time and MONEY into a car that can no longer we run? Oh what it can be run in another class, so we have different classes with the same cars? LOL

Secondly, a 602 crate is 3300$

Either a used one or in your dreams. That is dealer cost before tax, and without any accessories.

Now rather than guessing, or believing what you would like to, why not look it up? This is USD BTW http://www.crateenginedepot.com/Circle-Track-Crate-Engine-350350-19258602-P10010C672.aspx

Working with your dreams ($5,000 budget less $3,300 motor) leaves you with $1,700 to get everything other than a motor to get on the track. I'll tell you that isn't happening.

Its nice to live in a fantasy world, but doing so is either going to leave you without the funds to finish your project, or you will be in much deeper than you think - which about sums up every racer.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112510#msg112510

[cardriver]

They also allow bone stocks to run in this race (if their 4cyl). Gives them a chance to tune.

You have just added a whole new level of confusion. "If they are 4 cyl"..

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112511#msg112511

[Dougy109]

I have to agree with the statement "this guy again"... Anyway, you have a few valid points, but again because you are a couch-coach, and ran here"once" this year, I'll remind you of how you're off a little. It is called Bone-Stock-Chaos, because a few people don't want to get rid of the Chaos in the name. It's a silly name, but it fit when the cars were doing barrel turns, and clown type shows. That is no longer the case, but the name has stuck.

Yes, you are right. Building a competitive truck, isn't far from V8, at all. 602's are not cheap, and there are guys who will say Yes, I can get going for five grand. But you will riding around the back, no matter how good you are. SS are now basically Limited Lates, and do put on a good show. In my opinion, the best weekly show we have right now. The only thing I feel Delly needs to do, is bring the payouts back to LM, and the show will improve. Just my two cents.

As for Bone Stock, leave it alone, and keep the schedule three to four weeks from each run. Like old Enduro , you need time to rebuild, or procure a new car.

Mini's, V8,Truck,SS, and LM would be great. Four classes each week, on a 15 to 18 week schedule. One class will always be off each week, getting some much needed breaks for teams. Every couple weeks, have Bones come do a Friday special, mixed in with KoTH's.. and so on.

As for cutting the pie too many ways, I think all of you stating so, are close minded. You are looking at the current body count, and not considering there's guys ALREADY running elsewhere, and would come back. You need to give them reasons, and so far we haven't.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112512#msg112512

[kevilay]

I have to agree with the statement "this guy again"... Anyway, you have a few valid points, but again because you are a couch-coach, and ran here"once" this year, I'll remind you of how you're off a little. It is called Bone-Stock-Chaos, because a few people don't want to get rid of the Chaos in the name. It's a silly name, but it fit when the cars were doing barrel turns, and clown type shows. That is no longer the case, but the name has stuck.

Yes, you are right. Building a competitive truck, isn't far from V8, at all. 602's are not cheap, and there are guys who will say Yes, I can get going for five grand. But you will riding around the back, no matter how good you are. SS are now basically Limited Lates, and do put on a good show. In my opinion, the best weekly show we have right now. The only thing I feel Delly needs to do, is bring the payouts back to LM, and the show will improve. Just my two cents.

As for Bone Stock, leave it alone, and keep the schedule three to four weeks from each run. Like old Enduro , you need time to rebuild, or procure a new car.

Mini's, V8,Truck,SS, and LM would be great. Four classes each week, on a 15 to 18 week schedule. One class will always be off each week, getting some much needed breaks for teams. Every couple weeks, have Bones come do a Friday special, mixed in with KoTH's.. and so on.

As for cutting the pie too many ways, I think all of you stating so, are close minded. You are looking at the current body count, and not considering there's guys ALREADY running elsewhere, and would come back. You need to give them reasons, and so far we haven't.

Doug you said it well. I think SS and Late models are great. I don't know much about the actual costs and their winning pool but as a spectator they are my favorite racing. As far as splitting classes you are thinking the same way I did. It will not just split drivers from our track, it can also bring drivers from other tracks.

3300$ new crate, 300$ for shipping.
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/GM-Performance-IMCA-Sealed-CT-350-602-Crate-Engine-IMCA-Approved,67820.html

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