Time for a new class?

[biffisgreat]

agree with mcqueen 100% How to make a small fortune racing?  start with a big one!

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112571#msg112571

[Shadowracer]

I know I'm late to chime in here, but I caught the thread late and have been thinking about it.

Honestly, the thought I've come to to is that Delaware needs another class about as much as a fish needs a bicycle. All it would really do is split the Bonestox up. You might have a dozen or so guys break off to run bona-fide Mini stock, but I don't see much more happening than a little more dilution of the driver base...and they don't need any more of that. We already have 6 divisions, and some of those are having a tough time topping 10 vehicles.

The idea of running all cars in all heats has been a great exercise in "making the best with what you have." and it works. But it shouldn't have had to. I'm not sure where the discrepancy is between V8 and Enduro, but there should be more guys coming out to race V8, and there isn't. I believe that is exactly what would happen with Bone Stock if we introduced a "new" mini stock division.

And you can talk about drawing other mini stock drivers that race elsewhere, but I'd believe that only once I saw it. The open 4cyl races have been good, but the number of visitors isn't nearly big enough to indicate that other track's mini stocks would all stampede to Delly once it became a regular division.

The good news is that between Enduro and open 4 cyl races, there's lots of opportunities for guys to race 4cyl with racing setups if they choose. Sure, there's no real points series to go with it, but that doesn't mean the racing isn't legit...and THAT fact has seemed to escape a lot of guys. (I'm still rather beside myself that they introduced a points series for the Boners....a class that absolutely didn't need one.)

As far as the Bone Stocks go, I like em' the way they are. As adamant as I was about the idea of "keeping the Chaos in Chaos cars", I have changed my tune a little as far as how the actual races are run. That's a whole other thread....but they can still do better IMO. But the cars are fine the way they are. I believe management had a few scares and a rough awakening regarding teching safety, but I have no doubt that that side of things will improve quickly and dramatically. These guys running Delly aren't idiots.   

So, in sum....NO mini stock division, in my humble opinion.

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[tigeraid]

Little late to the party, but I fully agree there's no need for yet another class.  The Bone Stocks can still grow organically over the next few seasons into what is basically a Mini-Stock class anyway.  Delaware selling that great $300ish safety package is a good way to help that along.  There's no real reason to get more speed out of the cars, the racing is good.  Just make it safer (cage quality, fabrication, seats, belts, etc) and let it go where it's gonna go.  I do think a little more tire would help things out though, personally. 

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[Dougy109]

I on the other hand think yes it is too quick for a full time schedule intro. I do however think they need to tell people, there's a chance they will do it the following year. These cars are cheap enough, you can build while you run Bone's or whatever class you like. It doesn't even need to be full schedule yet. The only reason I push so hard for a Mini Class, is there's setup in it, a few more dollars invested, and it's faster racing (on a budget). So is the Bone's, but that class is and always will be stock (as it should). There's room for it, in small/slow introduction like the Open runs, just a few more of them.


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[Wheelsspin]

I do respect every ones opinion, but I'm not suggesting to add another class but to have a new class to replace an existing one if there's not enough support to keep going, be it lm v8 stock enduro or trucks , l remember watching 6-7 open wheel mods for over ten years and that sucked ! And if you think Delaware can survive on ss & bs you got another thing coming.

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[Dougy109]

^^
Agree


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[McQueenRacing]

You honestly think running a mini stock is cheap? Go look on Facebook and see what a mid pack car is going for. 3-4k. You can buy Triskas truck and put a used crate in it for 3-4k. Mini stocks are NOT cheap. Especially when you wind them out around delaware. The motors are built for that so to get a built motor for your mini stock you are looking at crate prices. Abolish the enduros, run the trucks Saturdays and be done with it. It was a good run.

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[cardriver]

Bingo, mini-stock is not cheap. 3-4K will get you junk.

Mini-stock is now a class of ex LM drivers, and even past LM champions running cars as a team under a huge sponsor with 5 or more crew guys wrenching. The only "cheap" about that is, yes its cheap compared to the Cup teams they are trying to copy.

Notice what this thread always heads back to? In every recent one of the comments? The earlier truth - don't add another damn class, get the classes that you have under control in terms of cost which is the real root of your problem.

Yes you can say "but that isn't Delaware, they don't even have a mini stock class" and swear things will be different. Well if they were, then the other classes would be working better and you wouldn't be considering a new one. Right back to cost.

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[cardriver]

People ,people please no...... Will you all stop and think about what crap is coming out of your mouths. The track and other tracks DO NOT need more classes ,the pie (so to speak) is only so big to draw drivers from and if you keep cutting the same pie into more and more classes you end up with smaller pieces (smaller fields) but more classes . Stop thinking like this  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Take the classes you have. STOP the out of hand cost being spent on these things . The tracks and the builders have aloud this to get out of hand and you have priced your selfs rite out of it.... More classes will not help ,stop and control the cost on the stuff you have .... The end my two cents...wait for your replies on this one ...

Repost

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[Dougy109]

Trucks are NOT cheap either. 130 a tire, plus race fuel, plus, plus plus. Remember I was on a truck crew for two years, and helped Mike Howard, back in the early days of truck (when it was awesome). Mini's WERE cheaper than a truck to run... BY FAR.

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[notingtolose]

well as a veteran crew cheif of the trucks i will say they are not cheap...but on same note talk to a guy like mike holmes,andrew kamarth,dave bailey,bill swartzenberg,mike gettlaife,etc it is not cheap to run a full time competitive mini at a tracks smaller then delaware that arnt even hard on equipment. a hossier 790 is $130 a falkin azenia k is 125 at unlimited tire in london plus another $40 for dave mccullough racing to shave so thats 165 for a d.o.t tire then x4 660 for 4 new tires vs 520 for the hoosier tire. plus motor work plus plus plus i could keep goin but i wont... lucky u guys lol imo and im a pioneer at delly with 4 cyls there is no need for a mini stock division YET. flammy just opened up 16v motors so there is an option.

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[McQueenRacing]

well as a veteran crew cheif of the trucks i will say they are not cheap...but on same note talk to a guy like mike holmes,andrew kamarth,dave bailey,bill swartzenberg,mike gettlaife,etc it is not cheap to run a full time competitive mini at a tracks smaller then delaware that arnt even hard on equipment. a hossier 790 is $130 a falkin azenia k is 125 at unlimited tire in london plus another $40 for dave mccullough racing to shave so thats 165 for a d.o.t tire then x4 660 for 4 new tires vs 520 for the hoosier tire. plus motor work plus plus plus i could keep goin but i wont... lucky u guys lol imo and im a pioneer at delly with 4 cyls there is no need for a mini stock division YET. flammy just opened up 16v motors so there is an option.

Completely agree with you Don. Both are expensive. I would put mini stocks as just expensive as the trucks.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=20371.msg112647#msg112647

[cardriver]

well as a veteran crew cheif of the trucks i will say they are not cheap...but on same note talk to a guy like mike holmes,andrew kamarth,dave bailey,bill swartzenberg,mike gettlaife,etc it is not cheap to run a full time competitive mini at a tracks smaller then delaware that arnt even hard on equipment. a hossier 790 is $130 a falkin azenia k is 125 at unlimited tire in london plus another $40 for dave mccullough racing to shave so thats 165 for a d.o.t tire then x4 660 for 4 new tires vs 520 for the hoosier tire. plus motor work plus plus plus i could keep goin but i wont... lucky u guys lol imo and im a pioneer at delly with 4 cyls there is no need for a mini stock division YET. flammy just opened up 16v motors so there is an option.

Its a misconception that the larger tracks are harder on equipment, they are not. Its the small bullrings that tear things up every week. One groove racing where the only way to pass it to move someone (Barrie, Sauble, Flamborough, Peterborough, Capital) tears things up every week. Even if you don't crash, you very often are looking at a new lower, ball, and tie rod that add up after time. Season years back I ran double duty Friday/Saturday at KD and Mosport, both big tracks. Unless you had an all out crash into the wall sort of wreck, you were more than likely taking your car home without any damage. Damage cost money, a lot of money, one bent rim and cut tire and that is your winnings for the night, you can get one for those per heat in the bullrings.

790/890 is a POS tire which is 1/2 your problem. They are one night tires like the slicks, run it a bit loose and get it hot and you have a hockey puck. You guys need to get with the program and get the retreads. Yes they are a pain in the ass to get stager, but the darn things last. More than possible to get a whole year on your lefts, you are more likely to cut them than wear them out. Big cost savings right there. To top it off they are a better tire and the track even knows it, which is why they were not allowed and the invitations. Next problem sticking the 602 crate in everything with 4 wheels. The 290 hp crate is 1/2 the price and much better suited for the lower levels. Cut your tire budget in 1/2 with retreads, and your motor budget in 1/2 - tell me that's not a huge savings that completely changes your cost to run, but in no way changes what the class is about.

Opening mini up to 16V is the biggest mistake anyone could've made. The proof is right there in black and white in front of you. Mini went from a low budget class where you could competitive run junker $500 Dodge Shadows, to Japanese import honda engine, $5,000++++++ 2.3 built mustang motor, and 240 rebuilt. All those cars are rare and command top dollar just to get the chassis, then the money spent on top... That there is what pushed the price of mini up to the insane level. I find it troubling in racing when folks don't see the obvious and worse suggest repeating the same mistakes as a result. Yes yes, I understand these days its hard to find any 4-bannger that isn't 16V, but its irrelevant, the class went from cheap to expensive with a simple rule change.

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[Wheelsspin]

I will say it again we don't need another class!! But we might have to replace a existing one if there is not enough support to keep running. As for tires a 3400 lb truck is way harder on tires then a sun fire. And besides who said we have to run falkins . And to build a top notch truck will kick the shit out of 15 grand , I can guaranty you I can build a 22 sec Acura non vtec for 5 grand .   the truck class is safe for now , can't say that for sum of the other classes though.

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[notingtolose]

ok so car driver obviously u dont run delaware often!! we tried retreads and they sucked more then a $2 whore ..... also techniclly delly didnt have an home track rules invitational for ss they had home and home series which had a set rule book which did not include recaps.

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