OSS on dirt?

[racerfan44]

Spencer where did you get the info Steve Robblee was not running OSS this year.I was talking to Matt Robblee at the CPT racing show last weekend and he said himself  and his dad (Steve ) were racing OSS this year plus he(Steve ) was going to be doing other specials  and do some racing at Delaware also.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41243#msg41243

[Mobil1fan]

Mobil...As for your statement about Flamboro, number one- the OSS cancelled the event because Flamboro didn't have a Sponsor, and the OSS said no way to running for free, regardless of what Flamboro put up on their web site.

If I had to choose between someone who's been in the business for 35 years, and an organization which has been around for 1 and has had several things fall through so far, I know who I'd choose. From what I've seen and heard out of both, John Casale's word > Dave Didero's word.

Furthermore, your statement on "pay as you play" sounds a little funny as every racing series around pays as they play..its called the back gate. I understand you race a car and I am shocked to think that you believe that if you didn't pay at the Back Gate that the Race Tracks would still want you... your dreaming kid !!     

There is a difference between the track paying the sanctioning fee for a series to show up and finding sponsorship for the race (ie. NCATS) versus the series paying the racers out of their own pockets and doing all of their own legwork to run there and to find a presenting sponsor (ie. CASCAR @ Toronto), wouldn't you say?

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41244#msg41244

[SpencerLewis]

Spencer where did you get the info Steve Robblee was not running OSS this year.I was talking to Matt Robblee at the CPT racing show last weekend and he said himself  and his dad (Steve ) were racing OSS this year plus he(Steve ) was going to be doing other specials  and do some racing at Delaware also.

well the only way i get any info on that series is through this website, its not as though i go searching for it, so im sure that someone either posted it here or on the GRR board

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41248#msg41248

[Judge]

Mobill, Not to argue the fact that for some reason you always know best, I know for a fact what went on with Flamboro and the OSS, so you can keep thinking what you think is best and for all others that want to know the truth it was an agreement on both parts.
As for your statement on 'pay to play', before you start knocking anyone... do the math.

If 24 NCATS Teams sign in the back gate the average gate cost is around $10,000 per race plus the registration fee's at an additional $8400.00 and the inspection fee's of $3,000.00. That is a total of $21,300.00 the teams payout to race.

Considering it pays about $5,000.00 to win ( Cayuga for example) or $2500.00 to win (Edmonton for example) are you still gong to say they don't 'pay to play' !!
Agreed it's a shame that a series like the NCATS takes so much out of teams pockets, and tracks charge so much to racers for putting on the show, it makes you wonder what exactly happens with all that money because the Teams rarely see it back in their wallets.
When I worked at Mosport, one of the winningest teams in that series told me that the cost to get in the gate with fee's was more then they could ever make if they were to win 4 races back to back....sad but true !!
My numbers may be out a little as they were given to me a year ago, but I think you understand my point of view on this matter.

I applaud the OSS for making the stand on the fact that they are the ones putting on the show and they need to be paid for it. It's a shame all racing series are not run by members of the series like the OSS is designed.

I think your smart enough to understand the principles behind my reply and you can say whatever you want about this series, but as a racer you should consider running in a series that cares about it's team more then there wallets, and the OSS is a good place to start.

Now, lets get back to down in dirty racing on Dirt !!


Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41253#msg41253

[Pinecrest]

  Mobil1fan seems to me to be one of the more informed and well thought out posters on here IMO . On the other hand you OSS guys are really starting to annoy me and if your trying to build a fan base i think your going about it the wrong way .

 Just my opinion .

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41258#msg41258

[Silverstone]

Hmmmm, Something tells me that Judge isn't exactly who 'she' says that she is!

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41260#msg41260

[oldbill]

Judge:
I don't who you are or where you get your info but John Casale doesn't pay series to come his track particularly one with 15 car fields and races as exciting as watching paint dry.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41264#msg41264

[hill3]

Judge:
I don't who you are or where you get your info but John Casale doesn't pay series to come his track particularly one with 15 car fields and races as exciting as watching paint dry.

any track owner /promotor that wants a series to come to their track pays. it is called a sanctioning fee pure and simple.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41265#msg41265

[Mobil1fan]

Mobill, Not to argue the fact that for some reason you always know best, I know for a fact what went on with Flamboro and the OSS, so you can keep thinking what you think is best and for all others that want to know the truth it was an agreement on both parts.
As for your statement on 'pay to play', before you start knocking anyone... do the math.

If 24 NCATS Teams sign in the back gate the average gate cost is around $10,000 per race plus the registration fee's at an additional $8400.00 and the inspection fee's of $3,000.00. That is a total of $21,300.00 the teams payout to race.

Considering it pays about $5,000.00 to win ( Cayuga for example) or $2500.00 to win (Edmonton for example) are you still gong to say they don't 'pay to play' !!
Agreed it's a shame that a series like the NCATS takes so much out of teams pockets, and tracks charge so much to racers for putting on the show, it makes you wonder what exactly happens with all that money because the Teams rarely see it back in their wallets.
When I worked at Mosport, one of the winningest teams in that series told me that the cost to get in the gate with fee's was more then they could ever make if they were to win 4 races back to back....sad but true !!
My numbers may be out a little as they were given to me a year ago, but I think you understand my point of view on this matter.

I applaud the OSS for making the stand on the fact that they are the ones putting on the show and they need to be paid for it. It's a shame all racing series are not run by members of the series like the OSS is designed.

I think your smart enough to understand the principles behind my reply and you can say whatever you want about this series, but as a racer you should consider running in a series that cares about it's team more then there wallets, and the OSS is a good place to start.

Now, lets get back to down in dirty racing on Dirt !!

You're trying to compare apples to oranges here. If you look at it the way you are, of course every series, every racer is 'pay-to-play.' I think that much is obvious to basically everyone. What I'm getting at is the difference between a track paying a series to show up and finding a presenting sponsor for the event, and a series paying a track (NOT through the back gate) and finding the sponsor themselves to race there. Most successful series (Pro Cup, ARCA, NCATS, ISMA) get paid to show up, and most series don't have to find race sponsorship themselves.

Now, if your version of events surrounding the Flamboro date was true, why wouldn't the series and the track have the same press release, rather than 3 different accounts of events, much less two different accounts by the series? Like I said before, if it came down to a "he said, she said" scenario between John Casale and the OSS leadership, guess which side 9 out of 10 people would take?

Finally, having members of a series run the series doesn't make for a professional series, but rather club racing. I don't know how the Can-Am Midget and Vintage Mod guys make it work (maybe it's having history and precedents on their side, I don't know), but then again they're not aiming for bigger and better things than what they have, either. Members should have definitely have a say, don't get me wrong, but at the same time you can't have guys making decisions who have a direct interest in those decisions. Once things get competitive and expand under that model, bad blood comes to the surface...

PS: I don't try to claim that I know best, but there's not too many times where I'm wrong on these sorts of things either...

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41266#msg41266

[oldbill]

Judge:
I don't who you are or where you get your info but John Casale doesn't pay series to come his track particularly one with 15 car fields and races as exciting as watching paint dry.

any track owner /promotor that wants a series to come to their track pays. it is called a sanctioning fee pure and simple.

Hill3 - Since you may not know - John Casale had some bad experiences with travelling "pro" series a few years ago, series that made big promises and didn't deliver.
Since then he has based his track program on his own cars and visits by some travelling series whose members race as a hobby- CVM's, Can Am TQ Midgets, Pro Challenge, etc. He pays these series very little or nothing. The only exceptions are a couple of vists by the OSCAAR super lates and I am not sure what the arrangement is there.
The idea that he would even consider a sanctioning fee to OSS is laughable.

I also agree with Mobil1's comments about member run series. I have seen many and they never work for a "pro" series. As the series grows, the members priorites and ego's get in the way.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41267#msg41267

[Evan]

Please I know first hand that OSS didn't cancel it as it was never confirmed. I spoke to a couple people at Flamboro and got some message from other sources. I also spoke to other tracks as well that are not on the schedule anymore and they said the same thing that the dates were not confirmed and the marketing director of the series released the schedule without confirmed dates. This does happen in racing I was told by tracks as they want to get the schedule out fast and that was the case of two tracks that were on the schedule.

I can agree with Mobil1fan on one thing that the two different release from the OSS on their site did contradict each other. I can see one was out of anger as they most likely saw what was on the Flamboro site and the other one is to say they are the ones that release flamboro from the Schedule. Here is what I don't understand is it seems to me they are burning a lot of bridges in with tracks by these releases. Tracks don't need OSS to come to their tracks but the OSS needs to get tracks to go to. Who cares who did what. If I owned the series I would leave it at we are not going their this year but maybe next year we can but after you start releasing these things on your site they don't want you back and that is one less track you can contact again for a while.

I hope next year OSS looks at what happened this year and learns from the mistakes that have been made and what happened because of them.

Here is what I would look at if I was the head guy.

1. Get a lot of fans back that they lost because all the fighting.
2. Wait till everything is confirmed before releasing the schedule ( No one cares who has the schedule out first ).
3. Be in more contact of what other directors are doing on all deals. Have weekly phone meetings on MSN chats online. ( The directors all have to be on the same page at all times as one     says one thing then another says another that is almost the opposite of what the other director said).
4. Get back on good terms with the track owners ( You can't continue to burn bridges with these people )
5. Don't worry and respond to any bad thing said about the series. ( everyone is not going to like your series just as other don't like other series)
6.  little things don't have to always have to be press releases. ( IE: Barrie speedway Rogers deal from what I see on there site this is to televise all of the weekly NASCAR Whelen All-American Series races at Barrie Speedway this season.) I don't see anything about the OSS on Barrie's site about this deal? Is OSS part of that series because Barrie is a NASCAR Whelen All-American Track?

If this series is going to continue and grow they need to take a step back then move forward but with more caution.


I have nothing against them and I'm not bad mouthing them and all is in the past of what happened with them.

Mobil...As for your statement about Flamboro, number one- the OSS cancelled the event because Flamboro didn't have a Sponsor, and the OSS said no way to running for free, regardless of what Flamboro put up on their web site.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41271#msg41271

[25_JLM_13hp]

As a racer, you make almost all your plans regarding April-October based around that schedule, even down to   taking a vacation in a particular track's area immediately before or after a race at that track. For example, many JCAR families come to the Sauble area for a few days before or after a Sauble race. If you release a schedule with unconfirmed dates, and then start changing dates around when YOU KNEW that they may not have been right in the first place, that can screw up a lot of people. Basically, I would rather see a complete, confirmed schedule later than an incorrect one sooner. I know that there is always that little note saying schedule is subject to change, but that's more the exception than the rule.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41279#msg41279

[Mobil1fan]

Here is what I don't understand is it seems to me they are burning a lot of bridges in with tracks by these releases. Tracks don't need OSS to come to their tracks but the OSS needs to get tracks to go to.

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4. Get back on good terms with the track owners ( You can't continue to burn bridges with these people )

Why do you think they're going to dirt in the first place?

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41285#msg41285

[Doherty]

Cause most dirt tracks can afford to bring them in, not draw fans and they will still make money at year end, unlike most paved track promoters

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41286#msg41286

[jcrashm2]

When the vintage mods and the midgets show up, the back gate goes up $5 at Flamboro for everyone.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=7363.msg41287#msg41287