CanadianRacingOnline.com
Canadian Oval / Road Racing => Canadian Tracks => Kawartha Speedway => Topic started by: rossevans30 on November 11, 2008, 01:03:28 PM
-
Sorry I had to do this, but i will not let my threads be taken over with stupid comments that do nothing to add to the conversation. Now back what was being discussed without the kiddy comments
Derek the promotor from KD contacted me today. He assured me that the rules in regards to thunders were incorrect. I have removed the topic, to avoid false rumors getting around.
For next year it will be:
1. 602's allows with 100 lbs - 150 lbs penalty, builts as is
2. Load bolts in the rear only.
Thats it..
For the races, the feautres will all be 30 laps, with a consi heat added to give more track time to those that didn't make the semi. A larger payout for the top 10 is also promised.
The LLM/thunder/Challenger idea was from Mosport. I was told at AC about the rules as stated in the previous post, by Brian, the promotor for Mosport. I was also told by him Kawartha would be following these rules. Seems thats not the truth.
Considering that, I wouldn't make any assumptions in regards to LLM at KD. Might be a good time to call the track if it affects you.
Thanks,
Ross
From Wade:
Ross not jumping on you but gear rules are crap! 2.73 and 3.23 all I can say to that is GAY!! Gear/Shock rules suck good thing they don't apply to those who have a 9" and come to the invitationals but hey that's just my opinion!! I think most of you KD fellas are going to end up with the 602 they have the 2104 and 4412, they don't let the builts have nothing, shoulda gave them the same intake/carb package!!! 100lbs pffft, trust me Ross we seen this @ Flammy they'll get you down the straights!!
From Ross
Wouldn't knock the gear rule till you try it. Ran both the gear rule tracks this year with little wear to the engine. What beat the crap out of my engine was running Barrie, Sunset and Peterborough without the gear rule. Peterborough finished of my engine.I'm glad I don't have to run open gear, all its going to do is cost me in engine parts.
602, don't buy the hype. I was not impressed at all at Flamborough, nor at Peterbourgh AC (yes I'm eating my words that they would be the dominate motor) Rusnell (sable no cam rule) was pulling on the 602's like he was 500 lbs lighter. Baker was keeping them behind them. The only reason you saw them pull down the straights is because you are looking at a torque motor. Get the gear right on them, and they will pull (see on the track at Flamborough) miss your gear (see AC) and they are a dog. Ironic that the 602 you so admire on the straights lives off a higher gear, much like the gear rule at KD and Mosport
Now the second hype. Watching the built motor guys cry about 602's. Its funny. See Wade it goes back to what you said (and I admit I didn't figure it out till you said it) the 602 makes 350 hp with headers and a 4bbl, 310 ish with the 4412 and cast. So time to let the cat out of the bag. One car I ran with at KD was DYNO'd at 320 hp. I finished near him in points, and I could pull on him. Therefor, even I make more power than a 602, and there are alot of guys that pull on me. One fellow with monster motor (he cracked the throttle beside me one the outside at KD when I was hooked up and to the floor and pulled a 1/4 car instantly on me) claims he's be running a 602 next year. Sounds like a bluff if I ever heard one.
So no I'm not buying a sealed engine to be 20 hp down to built engines that can be worked on.
-
A 340 hp built motor? I like your Thunder Car rules (or your tech dept.)...
I figured the 602 was about 330 with the 4412 and manifolds. Pretty close.
I figured the built engine we use at Barrie is about 280 - 290 max.
Rusnell (silver #72 LeMans) runs at Flamboro and I believe uses a 602 Ross. That car is not from Sauble and I'm sure does not have the unlimited cam.
I was told the 602 cars at Flamboro (their home track) smoked everyone that didn't have a 602 in the straights.
If you want to build a motor when you have the option of buying a 602 Ross it is after all YOUR money. Let us all know how that works out.
-
Ross my man are you a tad upset by my friend Kenny seems you guys have got off on the wrong foot and just so you know Kenny is "in the batters box" so to speak as he has purchased a respectable thunder car to say the least hell it's actually pretty storied to be honest!!
but I can let bygones be bygones and just watch and see how it all washes out!
-
Thunder, I was wrong, the "Spira Fire Protection" stickers had me thinking Rusnell was a Sauble car. If its a 602 he was running I take back all I just said.
I really have no clue, its all rumors that I have to work with anyhow. I say its time to put some on the dyno and see what we really have.
As for the comment I removed, I don't have time or the patients for crap talk with nothing to back it up.
-
all i see with the 602 is 1, they are cheap 2, they are reliable 3, you don't have to rev the snot out of them to make them work and 4, they are fast and easily tuned to different classes by adding or taking away bolt on parts (carbs, manifolds, headers etc.) i fortunately don't pay for engine building, so that keeps my costs down. but if i didn't have my HOSKING MISSILES, i'd go for the 602 in a second! by the way, thanks rob for all your help and support, without you we both know i wouldn't be racing!
-
I know Rusnell had his built motor for sale at the end of last year.
I have heard from various sources he runs a 602.
This is what I know. It runs like a scared cat. I know that too ;D
-
rusnell runs a 602....just like everyone else at flammy...
-
The most you should get out of a 602 with the 4412 and headers is 323hp on the dyno, if you have more than that you are doing something to them. The 602 makes alot of torque. that is why you don't need to turn them up. We were almost a second slower at flammy, Russnell and collison ran me down in 3 laps in the first heat and i had over a half straightaway lead
-
i seen that herbie....not much u can do there>>>lol..what happened in the feature>>seen u went off?
-
The most you should get out of a 602 with the 4412 and headers is 323hp on the dyno, if you have more than that you are doing something to them. The 602 makes alot of torque. that is why you don't need to turn them up. We were almost a second slower at flammy, Russnell and collison ran me down in 3 laps in the first heat and i had over a half straightaway lead
See this is where it gets confusing. If we have the 602 at 323 hp, what is Herb?
It would be safe to assume he has more than the 290, but less than 323 of a 602? That doesn't leave much room. So can we assume he has 310 ish, or is is really more than a 602, meaning that it would be better to build than be stuck with a 602??
-
Well since Herb is saying he got hunted down in 3 laps what you are saying Ross makes no sense...I think it is safe to say herb is down atleast 30 to the 602
-
He was at my right rear quarter coming out of the corner and was a car length ahead of me at the end of the straight, I think if you did your homework and talk to guys that run them it is worth it, we definity would be purchasing one
-
Ok, so everyone seems to be in love with the 602 crate. To be honest, It's SH#T. The racing sucks. So we all line up for a 50 lap feature, about 6-8 laps later, after the shuffling it's follow the leader single file crap. This sport we all love, was built on the the BUILT MOTOR GUY. Plain n Simple. And now they want to take it all away. Sorry if I piss people off, but too bad. I want to sit at the fence on a Saturday night and watch somebody work the highline all night. And Wade I would love to see you run a 3.90 or a 3.73 at Kawartha, good luck with that. Dont do it Herb stick with the built. Crate Motor = SHIITE racing.
-
I hear what you're saying Scott, I don't think much of freight train racing either.
But I think you have to admit $3200 is a good deal for 323 at the flexplate. I think the issue with two line racing is setup myself, but I know some will argue with me.
I don't like the idea of the 602, but given the option, in our class, if it was to come to the TC it would save a little in the engine dept.
I guess what I'm saying in my weird convoluted way is that I like saving money anywhere I can... but I wouldn't want to sacrifice the best racing division around to save $700 or $1700 or $2700 on engines.
I like the built and I would rather not see the 602 come to TC. Although I might make an investment in one for Invi's ;D
-
Well since Herb is saying he got hunted down in 3 laps what you are saying Ross makes no sense...I think it is safe to say herb is down atleast 30 to the 602
You'd be awful close there Thayne if not short by a little. There is no way anyone is making anywhere near 300. I've thrown out the number 280 and I would be willing to bet money on that before hitting the dyno. Just catch me before racing season starts because I'm perpetually broke during the summer... ;D
The 602 cars at A/C had loads of power... they just couldn't get them to turn (and rightly so, it's not their track) but they were getting there by the Sunday.
-
I think the 602 would have to be expunged from the LLM before it came into use by the thunders at Barrie.
-
Agreed!
The 602 is not the savior of TC in the province of Ontario. Like I said I wish for the class to be like it is now forever... and cost less. I can't really see that happening, kinda like a 6/49 win for me... ;D
Unfortunately some tracks are going to the 602 and it does not look good for the TC class here... It has great power for $3200... but between the move to LM setups and crates it won't help TC racing... Straight up gearing would be eliminated for one. TC is the tuner's class right now BTW... it has come tenfold from the street stock class it originated in. Bring in a entry level V8 truck class like Delaware has if you are worried about the economy of bringing 4 cyl racers up...
I think that we as TC racers should be more worried about the immenient drying up of Metric chassis... IMHO...
-
Ok, so everyone seems to be in love with the 602 crate. To be honest, It's SH#T. The racing sucks. So we all line up for a 50 lap feature, about 6-8 laps later, after the shuffling it's follow the leader single file crap. This sport we all love, was built on the the BUILT MOTOR GUY. Plain n Simple. And now they want to take it all away. Sorry if I piss people off, but too bad. I want to sit at the fence on a Saturday night and watch somebody work the highline all night. And Wade I would love to see you run a 3.90 or a 3.73 at Kawartha, good luck with that. Dont do it Herb stick with the built. Crate Motor = SHIITE racing.
AMEN Brother if I want to race trains I'll go get my Conductors licence!!! I'm not sure our rule was regulate a 3.90/3.73 @ Kwartha but I wouldn't hessitate to try something in the 6.00 plus final range straight up! but I love RPM's!! I think if you were to allow the 2101 on the builts that run with the 602's you'd pretty well even them out IMHO
Also the 602 makes the same torque as HP I'm not positive about how far it drops with the 4412 and stock manifolds but I'm sure it does, I believe the number for a very stout built engine would be in that 280-290hp mark Kevin but we also have the ability to make it "Come to life" where we want via camshaft selection we can also opt for more torque or more HP, I'm positive that's why they past Herb by the end of the straights is that 10-15 more hp then us, Torque get's you up of the corner and moving and HP will carry you the rest hence why @ AC they didn't seem quite as effective Peterborough is not an HP track it's a torque track like Barrie and Sunset shorter straights where as Flammy has longer straights and KD they should really haul the mail down there!! the 602's have good balance but you can't play with them (Legally) and that always sucks take a good look at what past crate implements have done aslong as they don't mandate it I'm ok with it but the day the tell me I have to use one will be very very sad, I like built motors and I like the guys that build them (most of them anyhow) you don't need bags of HP to race short tracks! Torque is what you should be hunting for
-
Hey wade, may i suggest a truly powerful and reliable HOSKING mill for your new ride. they ARE proven powerplants.
-
Jim I believe I'll be going with the other H name
-
Jim I believe I'll be going with the other H name
I like D-H myself ;D ;D ;D
-
mr h is obviously Mr. Howard, a very reliable and power building man and a good guy too! might as well give him a shout out as well.
-
I could surprise you though Jim!! you just never know
-
LOL, i know what you mean! Thats another guy who knows his stuff.
-
Jim I believe I'll be going with the other H name
Warren FisHer? I mean thats all that you talked about when you got the car was how you were gonna get Warren to build for you? Im confused Tom? Neither his first name nor his last name start with H, just the middle of his last name?
-
Jim I believe I'll be going with the other H name
Warren FisHer? I mean thats all that you talked about when you got the car was how you were gonna get Warren to build for you? Im confused Tom? Neither his first name nor his last name start with H, just the middle of his last name?
Tom is confused himself Slaughter ;D
-
maybe he meant Him or He. LOL! warren is another guy who sure knows his stuff.
-
Tom gets confused easily.....like a monkey trying to get a banana off the computer screen....just cant figure it out?
Yes Warren does know his stuff, always been reliable and cant beat the $$$! Never had a hiccup this year at all and kept up with the million$$$ rockets....even kept up with Ross! oh, wait, slipped my mind, I passed him :p j/k. Warren will be my builder again for the up and coming season in LLM.....Im a happy customer ;D
-
Tom told me Warren would be building his engine too??? I wonder what changed? Tom, please explain, I thought you were super impressed with Warren. That's not to say that the others aren't great too, I know they are, just wondering why the change of heart?
-
Tom told me Warren would be building his engine too??? I wonder what changed? Tom, please explain, I thought you were super impressed with Warren. That's not to say that the others aren't great too, I know they are, just wondering why the change of heart?
Monkey Boy Tom there is good if he can find his way home after school. ;D
Just kidding, he has some options available to him that he is taking advantage of.
I heard he knows some guy named Brezinski too. ;D :o
-
Oh trust me Warren will definately have his hands on it no doubt! I am super impressed have been for some time now remember Steve I was part of a team that won a championship with the same combination I intend on using, Warren Fisher IMHO is the best kept secret in the Southern Ontario short track scene!! and Billy Howard is for all intense purposes kinda like Yoda if you will! (he's a wise fella that has done the trip a time or 2) I think I have a trick or 2 up my sleeve so we shall see how the combo works!! (worked great last time) Both builders are great and both know how to make er haul the mail!! it's only a dream Steve but just imagine the ideas that would be going on if the put thier heads together!! but yes I would/will use Warren Fisher in a heart beat!!! I just want the bastard to stay together so it's only these two in my mind that I trust for quality workmenship and reliability (no offence to other just personal prefference) As for Mr. Brezenzki LOL now that is funny Tex cause I was certain I met him through you LOL he's a friendly bugger though knows alot of folks!! in other words no change of heart just have an idea and could be on to something!!
-
Oh no you didn't meet him through me...
You told me to call him, gave me the secret shop number and said to ask him to give me the "Special Wade Peterson Discount" ;D :o
Like they said at Woodstock "Stay away from the the acid it's bad"... LOL
-
Tom and his secrets.....outta control.
-
he said no offense, just personal preference Jim, you guys have to stop attacking one another.
-
there is a little more to it than that thayne, but i'm not lowering myself to defend this shit anymore. people know the truth!
-
there is a little more to it than that thayne, but i'm not lowering myself to defend this shit anymore. people know the truth!
Is it though Jim? I mean, really, Terry hasnt said it is so I have a hard time beleiving that?? "Its true Its true!" LMAO!! j/k ;D
-
Junior u lil shit disturber....
btw...'August Rush' is a greta movie!
-
Ya, my arms are sore a bit from stirring ;D