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it was on the very dry front stretch! my neck hurt for about a week, but it made some crazy hard hits  and a very good show.  If you don't like the derby's at the  track nobody will make you watch them

why not put stompen tom in a derby car  and i promise you that alot of race cardrivers will be steping up to drive in derby cars. anyways that is just my view.

Yeah probably LOL

I've run derbys myself. I'm not knocking them. I'm saying they shouldn't be used as a side show, belittles them much the same as the racing.. Kinda like how about I come out to Simcoe and run a few laps in the pit in my thunder to entertain the fans? Your thinking I'm nuts now, but isn't the same the other way around?

BTW while we got you here 1) Did they run the derby on the PAVED track? 2) if they did, how did that work? 3) water or oiled it or crazy hard hits??

Just because it has a engine and moves dosn't mean its racing. Jumping a motor cycle has as much in common with racing as using a gas lawnmower to cut your lawn.

Can you clarify this?  Last I checked my lawnmower runs on gas...

See with these side shows, you've seen it once, you seen them all.... How many time do you want to watch some guy jump something on a motorcycle? Gets old real quick. Racing on the other hand is different each night, which is part of what makes it enjoyable.

That isn't always true.  Something different always happens with a "side show" or they wouldn't get booked by the tracks.  As for racing, how many times do you get a track where the top five in a division usually end up being the top five every week, often with one or two guys dominating the wins?  That fits the definition of something that isn't different every night.

Ross, remember that you are looking at it from a driver's point of view.  That puts you in a "die hard" group of fans who love racing.  The fans who come out and pay at the grandstand gate are all kinds of people who want to see a show.  Next time something different runs at the track take a look at the crowd - a loonie says it is bigger, not smaller.  So cutting out "side shows" is like turning away people at the gate.

Mark

If you want to try another slippery slope on for size, what is considered 'true racing'? Do you draw the line at enduros or 4-funs, or do they not count? Does true racing only consist of heats and a feature, or are even heats or Australian Pursuits too gimmicky for your liking? Autograph sessions aren't racing, so why not axe those? Just in general, what's the difference between side-shows, hype-building actions and 'true racing'?

There's a lot more to motorsports than just racing alone...

Why isn't 4-fun and enduro's racing? We are talking about side shows not lower classes. Without a street stock class, enduro is about the only feeder series for Thunder producing driver such as myself, but more imporantly Willy Ryens. 4-fun could use an improvement in safety and would be better run as a mini, but its stll racing.

If you read my post, I suggested an Austrailian Persuit and others as a subsitution to side shows.

Autograph sessions, I find again get in the way of racing. Want an autograph, buy a pit pass and come and get one. HOWEVER it does introduce the fans to the drivers, and may make it more personal for them. BUT its about your product, drivers and the racers, not a one shot side show.

Just because it has a engine and moves dosn't mean its racing. Jumping a motor cycle has as much in common with racing as using a gas lawnmower to cut your lawn.

See with these side shows, you've seen it once, you seen them all.... How many time do you want to watch some guy jump something on a motorcycle? Gets old real quick. Racing on the other hand is different each night, which is part of what makes it enjoyable.

You're ignoring the fact that things like that do work to make racing fans out of people who come out to see it, and gets people involved who might not necessarily have had the opportunity to get out there (ie. Chaos Cars). If things like that don't work, do you think successful tracks like Thompson, Lake Erie, Irwindale and Toledo would be doing it year after year? I know from my experiences, I haven't heard of one person not going to Delaware at all because of the Chaos Cars, or even anyone saying they're skipping the night because they're on the card. Even looking here, true 'racing fans' appear to enjoy motorsports-oriented side-shows, and they haven't turned out badly. Your argument is based on the idea that the promoters are going to do it all wrong, but one single demo derby isn't going to signal the endfall of racing as we know it, nor are motorsports-oriented sideshows going to be the deciding factor in whether a track lives or dies. I think if hockey teams had the same hardcore fan pool to draw from as racing, they'd be doing the side-show acts as well in order to pull in casual fans who might not have given hockey a shot before.

If you want to try another slippery slope on for size, what is considered 'true racing'? Do you draw the line at enduros or 4-funs, or do they not count? Does true racing only consist of heats and a feature, or are even heats or Australian Pursuits too gimmicky for your liking? Autograph sessions aren't racing, so why not axe those? Just in general, what's the difference between side-shows, hype-building actions and 'true racing'?

There's a lot more to motorsports than just racing alone...

The demo derby is a one night event...which people are looking forward to.

What the point is, is its a slippery slope to mix these sideshows with racing.

The demo derby will bring out more fans, but to say these fans will come back, would not be true. You will get increased attendance for one night. You risk the promoter looking at that and saying hey, lets do it again, to increase the numbers in the stands.

Problem now is, all the true racing fans are getting sick of watching this crap. The novelty has worn out. So they pick another track, with RACING to go to. These are the guys that SUPPORT the track night after night, not just showing up for one sideshow a year. Numbers start going down, so the promoter goes back to his bag of tricks and makes even more side shows. More RACING fans leave, the place is 1/2 full of people that want to see a side show. Thats the end for that track, we lose another track. All the racers lose, and the sideshow fans move on to the next quick thrill.

Hockey games do not hold a tractor pull a demo derby or a dancing bear that jumps a motorcycle over fire during intermission! They concentrate on ther product, HOCKEY.. Hint hint nudge nudge

Not enough race fans out there. Fine then make some.

A darn hockey game dosen't need a sideshow and its packed. Why do all of you view our sport as being so lame that it cannot stand on its own???

If I was a potential fan listening to this, I would avoid a track. I can see a demo derby at the local fair, and most likely they have a beer tent. Racing alone can't entertain me, so why have it get in the way of my demo derby?

+10

Give me a break. Sideshows aren't a desperate last-ditch ploy to get fans but (if done right) are just a part of a promoter's bag of tricks to draw people out and part of the motorsports tradition (as opposed to just racing). There's no doubt the regular classes should be the focus of the track and to where virtually all of the track's efforts should go towards, but if you can get people in the door by doing stuff like that (and get more people watching you) then why not? The fact of the matter is that things like that, while they might piss you and the other racing-centric purists off, are working to draw casual fans in across pavement and dirt tracks alike and turn some of them into regular fans when they're done correctly.

Well said.  The buses were a great example - the drivers may not like it but the fans loved it.  It is time for promoters to start thinking like the fans of today, then maybe they'll fill the stands more often.

And by the way one of the BEST special events I remember as a kid was the Hell Drivers.  I wouldn't dare call those guys a "side show" to their faces.

Mark