Demo Derby At sunset?

[rossevans30]

with your reasoning, mosport should be turning people away

but then have more trouble  packing the place than the tracks that have "side shows"

No using my logic Kawartha should be full. They are pulling in the largest number of fans around these parts.

Sideshow Peterborough should be dead, and it is...

Mosport has 4 regular ThunderCars, unfortunatly that says it all. Thats not the kinda racing I'm talking about to pack a place. Fortunatly they have not resorted to sideshows. Too much history and class about that track..

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[rossevans30]

[And that wasn't a side show relative to the rest of the CASCAR season? Nobody's saying at all that the racing doesn't sell, just that there's more than racing alone to get people in the doors.

How about the track is a great place to score crack? Will get every druggie in the door... Tracks don't have to be desparte to get fans, and sideshow are..

If Kenseth vs. Thomson, in a great battle for the lead for the win is a side show, I have no idea what racing is.

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[Statsman]

dad ran a demo derby at Barrie in 78' the year before his rookie year. He won...we have some pics of that car and dad beside it. he looks so young. He was only 18.

I particularly like the demo derbies and of course the ever so popular hell drivers. They would drive around the track on two wheels. was great to watch.

Ok who knew I'm older than your dad?  1978 would be the year after my rookie year

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[Mobil1fan]

[And that wasn't a side show relative to the rest of the CASCAR season? Nobody's saying at all that the racing doesn't sell, just that there's more than racing alone to get people in the doors.

How about the track is a great place to score crack? Will get every druggie in the door... Tracks don't have to be desparte to get fans, and sideshow are..

If Kenseth vs. Thomson, in a great battle for the lead for the win is a side show, I have no idea what racing is.

Give me a break. Sideshows aren't a desperate last-ditch ploy to get fans but (if done right) are just a part of a promoter's bag of tricks to draw people out and part of the motorsports tradition (as opposed to just racing). There's no doubt the regular classes should be the focus of the track and to where virtually all of the track's efforts should go towards, but if you can get people in the door by doing stuff like that (and get more people watching you) then why not? The fact of the matter is that things like that, while they might piss you and the other racing-centric purists off, are working to draw casual fans in across pavement and dirt tracks alike and turn some of them into regular fans when they're done correctly.

As far as the Canada Day Shootout, how many people would've shown up if it was just the CASCAR regulars only? Maybe we've got differing ideas of what sideshows are, but to some people tossing Cup drivers out there might constitute a desperate attempt to get fans in the seats...

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[Petty Fan 45]

Statsman, thanks for the info!  Glad to hear I wasn't dreaming it all up!

but to some people tossing Cup drivers out there might constitute a desperate attempt to get fans in the seats...

Could definitely be viewed that way Mobil1...

rossevans, to reach the masses, you have to offer some variety.  Your ideas are all very interesting and seem well thought out.  I fear that there are not enough 'die hard' fans to propel this sport into the future.  These extras add to the overall show, but should not become the show IMO.

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[SSWebguy]

Give me a break. Sideshows aren't a desperate last-ditch ploy to get fans but (if done right) are just a part of a promoter's bag of tricks to draw people out and part of the motorsports tradition (as opposed to just racing). There's no doubt the regular classes should be the focus of the track and to where virtually all of the track's efforts should go towards, but if you can get people in the door by doing stuff like that (and get more people watching you) then why not? The fact of the matter is that things like that, while they might piss you and the other racing-centric purists off, are working to draw casual fans in across pavement and dirt tracks alike and turn some of them into regular fans when they're done correctly.

Well said.  The buses were a great example - the drivers may not like it but the fans loved it.  It is time for promoters to start thinking like the fans of today, then maybe they'll fill the stands more often.

And by the way one of the BEST special events I remember as a kid was the Hell Drivers.  I wouldn't dare call those guys a "side show" to their faces.

Mark

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[rossevans30]

Not enough race fans out there. Fine then make some.

A darn hockey game dosen't need a sideshow and its packed. Why do all of you view our sport as being so lame that it cannot stand on its own???

If I was a potential fan listening to this, I would avoid a track. I can see a demo derby at the local fair, and most likely they have a beer tent. Racing alone can't entertain me, so why have it get in the way of my demo derby?

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[slide112]

Not enough race fans out there. Fine then make some.

A darn hockey game dosen't need a sideshow and its packed. Why do all of you view our sport as being so lame that it cannot stand on its own???

If I was a potential fan listening to this, I would avoid a track. I can see a demo derby at the local fair, and most likely they have a beer tent. Racing alone can't entertain me, so why have it get in the way of my demo derby?

+10

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[SSW-BSW-FAN]

Everyone here can stand racing on its own...if we didn't then why watch it in the first place. The demo derby is a one night event...which people are looking forward to. We still come out every other night...if I didn't like racing why would I spend the 20$ a week to get in the pits...
I mean why don't you just let it be...we obviously want to see the derby and nothing you say here is going to change that!

And P.S hate to brake it to you but even hockey games have side shows...if you've ever seen one...its between each peirod when they do things to entertain the fans!!

racing is racing...and always will be no matter what track you go to...no matter what time of year (past, present or future) your going to have the fans there for the racing...and some there for the side show either way the track is making the money, and having fans in the seats! Thats just the way it is!! So get over it already!!

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[rossevans30]

The demo derby is a one night event...which people are looking forward to.

What the point is, is its a slippery slope to mix these sideshows with racing.

The demo derby will bring out more fans, but to say these fans will come back, would not be true. You will get increased attendance for one night. You risk the promoter looking at that and saying hey, lets do it again, to increase the numbers in the stands.

Problem now is, all the true racing fans are getting sick of watching this crap. The novelty has worn out. So they pick another track, with RACING to go to. These are the guys that SUPPORT the track night after night, not just showing up for one sideshow a year. Numbers start going down, so the promoter goes back to his bag of tricks and makes even more side shows. More RACING fans leave, the place is 1/2 full of people that want to see a side show. Thats the end for that track, we lose another track. All the racers lose, and the sideshow fans move on to the next quick thrill.

Hockey games do not hold a tractor pull a demo derby or a dancing bear that jumps a motorcycle over fire during intermission! They concentrate on ther product, HOCKEY.. Hint hint nudge nudge

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[Drive32]

I love hockey.
Except for the agonizing moments when no fight is happening.



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[Mobil1fan]

You're ignoring the fact that things like that do work to make racing fans out of people who come out to see it, and gets people involved who might not necessarily have had the opportunity to get out there (ie. Chaos Cars). If things like that don't work, do you think successful tracks like Thompson, Lake Erie, Irwindale and Toledo would be doing it year after year? I know from my experiences, I haven't heard of one person not going to Delaware at all because of the Chaos Cars, or even anyone saying they're skipping the night because they're on the card. Even looking here, true 'racing fans' appear to enjoy motorsports-oriented side-shows, and they haven't turned out badly. Your argument is based on the idea that the promoters are going to do it all wrong, but one single demo derby isn't going to signal the endfall of racing as we know it, nor are motorsports-oriented sideshows going to be the deciding factor in whether a track lives or dies. I think if hockey teams had the same hardcore fan pool to draw from as racing, they'd be doing the side-show acts as well in order to pull in casual fans who might not have given hockey a shot before.

If you want to try another slippery slope on for size, what is considered 'true racing'? Do you draw the line at enduros or 4-funs, or do they not count? Does true racing only consist of heats and a feature, or are even heats or Australian Pursuits too gimmicky for your liking? Autograph sessions aren't racing, so why not axe those? Just in general, what's the difference between side-shows, hype-building actions and 'true racing'?

There's a lot more to motorsports than just racing alone...



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[SSW-BSW-FAN]

Thats the best i've heard this who forum... GOOD JOB 

**2 Thumbs UP **

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[rossevans30]

If you want to try another slippery slope on for size, what is considered 'true racing'? Do you draw the line at enduros or 4-funs, or do they not count? Does true racing only consist of heats and a feature, or are even heats or Australian Pursuits too gimmicky for your liking? Autograph sessions aren't racing, so why not axe those? Just in general, what's the difference between side-shows, hype-building actions and 'true racing'?

There's a lot more to motorsports than just racing alone...

Why isn't 4-fun and enduro's racing? We are talking about side shows not lower classes. Without a street stock class, enduro is about the only feeder series for Thunder producing driver such as myself, but more imporantly Willy Ryens. 4-fun could use an improvement in safety and would be better run as a mini, but its stll racing.

If you read my post, I suggested an Austrailian Persuit and others as a subsitution to side shows.

Autograph sessions, I find again get in the way of racing. Want an autograph, buy a pit pass and come and get one. HOWEVER it does introduce the fans to the drivers, and may make it more personal for them. BUT its about your product, drivers and the racers, not a one shot side show.

Just because it has a engine and moves dosn't mean its racing. Jumping a motor cycle has as much in common with racing as using a gas lawnmower to cut your lawn.

See with these side shows, you've seen it once, you seen them all.... How many time do you want to watch some guy jump something on a motorcycle? Gets old real quick. Racing on the other hand is different each night, which is part of what makes it enjoyable.

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[Mobil1fan]

I'm saying that some 'true racing fans' don't view those classes as being serious racing classes, and are seen as sideshows to the latemodels or thunder cars in certain circles. I'm also saying that some people would find your ideas just as gimmicky as what you find gimmicky, so where do you draw the line?

Again, there's more to motorsports than just racing alone, and successful tracks have figured that out and worked with it without causing the death of their weekly racing classes.

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