Paramedics vs St.Johns Ambulance

[polishprince12]

This is not an attack or crticism of St. Johns Ambulance in any way!

   This is for drivers and crew members at all tracks across Ontario. Would you be willing to pay $1 more on your pit gate admission nightly to have actual paramedics on site rather than general first aid providers? I personally would like to know that myself and my fellow competitors have a more extensive medical provider available!

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[Thunder6]

I'm not driving or working on a pit crew anymore but I certainly would go for that extra dollar for safety if I was.
Nothing against St John Ambulance volunteers but to have qualified Paramedics and a transport unit on standby that saves crucial minutes by being able to transport immediately... Worth far more than the dollar you spend here guys.

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[Bake82]

This was a discussion we had at Capital City and the way it is here, is even if you have a city(municipal) paramedic and ambulance at the track, they are not allowed to transport you to the hospital.  you would still need to call 911 and have a ambulance come to the track and transport person to hospital. 

The ambulance at the track would only be able to bring you to the property limits.  This is what we have been told.  It may be different in Barrie area. 

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[ernie]

Don't want to sound crass but even if you had paramedics with a vehicle to take someone directly to the hospital the nights racing would be over until another vehicle is on site and ready to assist a driver. Even when a vehicle is on site but waiting for an ambulance for transfer racing has to stop until the vehicle and responders are available again. St John's are very good first responders and I don't think you would be able to get municipal paramedics or fire fighters to be at the track. Firstly most municipalities don't have extra vehicles to rent out and secondly I would think that the municipalities wouldn't let their people do this as part of their employment contract anyways. Most demo derbies and tractor pulls are run by municipalities these days or an arms length corporation owned by the municipality which is why you probably see them at the fairs. Also small towns have volunteer fire fighters which makes it a bit easier also. Perhaps when a track puts out for these contracts they should ensure that the equipment and people at the track are ready for race incidents. Maybe Prince has already researched all this and he knows where paramedics and equipment are available for racing and how much it costs?

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[Townhouse]

It all comes down to what is a reasonable cost, you pay for St. John's to be there and yes they have limitations on what they can do according to the training they have, you may even get a paramedic or two looking to do more with skills he/she may have with St. John's.  As far as Municipal or Transfer company paramedics you are paying considerably more as these are run as a businesses.  It is also true that they can't transport off the property they must wait for a dispatched transport unit. The Fire Services, most do not have paramedic units in Ontario although a very few Ambulance services are run by the Fire service as a separate division. Even Volunteers Firefighters get paid for the services they provide and the local municipality would recoup the costs of the firefighters and any vehicles staged at the track.
Safety is always of the utmost concern and what ever decision your local track takes, as long as the service you hire is providing the services you expect you should be well taken care of.
Hope everyone has a safe and successful race season!

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[NSCR-Medic]

I am not a driver nor a crew-member, I am, however a fan and a Paramedic. I have advocated for years that Paramedics should be present at all tracks. All Paramedic services in Ontario are now run by the Municipalities where they are based and most have Advanced Life Support units. Most, if not all Municipalities will contract out an Amubulance and a Crew be it Basic or Advanced Life Support for a fee. It is not cheap! The road course at Mosport (Canadian Tire Motorsports park) pays an estimated $150.00 per hour for an ALS Ambulance from Durham Region for events there and yes, they are permitted to transport to the local Hospital and another vehicle is sent to cover while it is gone (takes about 15 minutes). I would guess though that if there were a crash that resulted in injuries that require transport to hospital that racing would be stopped anyway until the local police could determine if an investigation is needed, again I mention Can Tire Park. I won't knock St. John Ambulance, that's where I started but, the private transfer companies that are out there are staffed mostly with people that could not get jobs with an EMS Service. In my humble opinion, Paramedics are a must, but they are not much good if there is not trained people around who can cut a race car so we can go to work, and that doesn't mean they have to firefighters.

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[polishprince12]

maybe i'm just getting older and starting to worry about these things but cost should never be the reason safety isn't used to the highest degree. i think we have all been lucky not to have needed extreme life saving measures needed at our tracks. (touch wood) hopefully we never will but eventually one day?? defibrillators should be mandatory at the very least. i have contacted a service and will post there services and price as soon as i find out. anyone know what st johns charges? again i'm not demeening them what so ever, they do a great job but there is a reason they don't patrol our highways saving car crash victims! i also believe that the tracks should mandate all safety clothing and some sort of approved head restraint also! we are moving pretty quick out there! every bit helps and lets face it, this can be a dangerous sport!

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[polaris13]

hmmmm points to ponder on all fronts here........
I'm not sure which way I would go here but some other things to consider are.....$150.00 per hour @ 5 hours per night=$750.00 plus taxes....and that's just an estimate. Will the drivers and pit crews pick up this cost or will the fans be expected to cover it also?  Or maybe the promoter should just pick up the cost....along with everything else they cover to put on the show.

but there is a reason they don't patrol our highways saving car crash victims!

Please don't assume you know why they work/volunteer for St. John's....most have full time jobs and volunteer their services for the enjoyment of helping others.  I believe that all are certified in first aid....and most/if not all have defibrillator training.  I know that it also takes a special person to be an EMS....not everyone can handle seeing mutilated/dead bodies on our highways....and some individuals can not/will not perform CPR even when they are certified.

In all the years I have been attending racing events of various kinds......I have yet to see an instance where a St. Johns personnel did not do the job expected of them or harm someone in the process. 

Wait times for an ambulance are different in every municipality and on any given night there could be a situation to throw a jinx in the time frame.  You just never know what will happen and when.  Yes, racing can be a "dangerous sport", but I think all racers knew this when they decided to race. 

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[polishprince12]

hmmmm points to ponder on all fronts here........
I'm not sure which way I would go here but some other things to consider are.....$150.00 per hour @ 5 hours per night=$750.00 plus taxes....and that's just an estimate. Will the drivers and pit crews pick up this cost or will the fans be expected to cover it also?  Or maybe the promoter should just pick up the cost....along with everything else they cover to put on the show.

but there is a reason they don't patrol our highways saving car crash victims!

Please don't assume you know why they work/volunteer for St. John's....most have full time jobs and volunteer their services for the enjoyment of helping others.  I believe that all are certified in first aid....and most/if not all have defibrillator training.  I know that it also takes a special person to be an EMS....not everyone can handle seeing mutilated/dead bodies on our highways....and some individuals can not/will not perform CPR even when they are certified.

In all the years I have been attending racing events of various kinds......I have yet to see an instance where a St. Johns personnel did not do the job expected of them or harm someone in the process. 

Wait times for an ambulance are different in every municipality and on any given night there could be a situation to throw a jinx in the time frame.  You just never know what will happen and when.  Yes, racing can be a "dangerous sport", but I think all racers knew this when they decided to race. 

#1 i am not bashing them or criticizing them or even questioning some of their training, this was just an idea of what people might want. i'll take your vote as "leave it the way it is"
#2 just because we know its dangerous, what factor does it have on this?? walking out your door is dangerous!

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[polishprince12]

sorry forgot to add, i would expect us, the competitors and crews to pony up the cash. not the fans or promoters! i was using $1 more as a loose example.

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[polishprince12]

hmmmm points to ponder on all fronts here........
I'm not sure which way I would go here but some other things to consider are.....$150.00 per hour @ 5 hours per night=$750.00 plus taxes....and that's just an estimate. Will the drivers and pit crews pick up this cost or will the fans be expected to cover it also?  Or maybe the promoter should just pick up the cost....along with everything else they cover to put on the show.

I can tell you are not a driver. Personal I put a price a bit higher than $750 on my life. After that comment, I put something well shy of $750 on yours.

$750 by 30 drivers is $25 each! Take it out of the purse and no one would notice the difference. Considering we are already paying backgate rate to get all our crew who help to put on the show, I don't see that as any problem, other than being cheap.

In all the years I have been attending racing events of various kinds......I have yet to see an instance where a St. Johns personnel did not do the job expected of them or harm someone in the process. 

You need to get out a bit more.. Polishprince sat in his car waiting for an ambulance a few years back. Work out in the end, but there is the potential there that it may not have.

The problem isn't that St.Johns doesn't meet the expectations, its that the exceptions they need to meet are to low.

People have died on Ontario tracks. Not good PR for the tracks, drivers really don't like to go over it every day, but we are not playing touch football here.

Yes, racing can be a "dangerous sport", but I think all racers knew this when they decided to race. 

Yeah we do understand. That is why we are asking for the protection that is merited by a dangerous sport.

What is your point anyhow? As a fan you would rather watch someone die in a car in front of your kids rather than paying a buck? If so, please stay home.

+100 yetti !

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[240racer]

Looking at Barrie and Sunset, I have always wondered where the real safety crew was. If I get knocked unconscious, and my car goes up in flames, where is someone with a fire suit and a proper extinguisher?  I don't know about you guys, but sometimes I watch those " most amazing home video" shows. Often they show horrible stock car crashes, almost always in the states, and they always seem to have a real safety crew, fully outfitted in some sort of fire protection. What do we have at Southern Ontario tracks? A bunch of flagmen in T-shirts who are in no way going to get close to a car that is up in flames. At least if a driver is going to burn to death, it would look good on the track if there was an effort to save them, instead of everyone just sitting there watching.
I actually didn't know how little the St. John's people can do until reading this, and can't believe I've been racing for 7 or 8 years not knowing. I would definitely throw down a couple more bucks nightly to know proper safety staff was on hand.

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[Thunder6]

Hey Jim maybe you should check with the local Fire Department as well into having them standby at the track... maybe offer the Speedway as a location for them to use for training, free passes for family etc... Having a County of Simcoe Ambulance staffed by Paramedics and the Fire Department standing by would be the cat's meow for the safety of the competitors.

I know sometimes guys don't think too much about safety vs. go fast but it really is important.

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[Townhouse]

This taken from the St. John's website I'm not stating an opinion I just wanted to clarify what you get from St. John's

Medical First Responder (MFR) PROGRAM


Advanced programs are ideal for anyone who must handle first response in an emergency. From emergency professionals such as firefighters and police, to industry workers in high-risk environments, the these programs can provide you with advanced skills to save a life when serious injury occurs.

Three levels of advanced first aid training are available for responders who have specific first aid responsibilities.
 

    Medical First Responder - this 24 hour program includes advanced assessment protocols and airway management including oxygen administration
    Advanced Medical First Responder I - this 40 hour program provides a comprehensive overview of key areas. This program includes all curriculum of the Medical First Responder and take candidates to the next level of response.
    Advanced Medical First Responder II (not available in all provinces) - this 80 hour program is designed for high level responders with specific workplace duties. Curriculum includes all modules of the Advanced Medical First Responder I and also includes such topics as Pharmacology and Orientation to Ambulance Operations.
 
St. John Ambulance Community Service volunteers for public events are all trained to the Advanced Medical First Responder level. You know you are in good hands with St. John Ambulance.

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[slapdown]

Like the rest of you have said, nothing against the St. John's volunteers but the tracks do need something better in place. A few years back I sprained my ankle at AC so went to their truck and all they could do was give me a bag of ice. They said they weren't allowed to do anything else, not even a tensor bandage. Also a few years back an elderly women fell and broke her leg at Peterborough. Again, they were only able to provide minimal services. Blankets to keep the women warm for 45 minutes until the ambulance arrived. And that is just two spectator examples. The likelihood of a serious injury to a racer or crew is much greater. A full service paramedic team ABLE to transport is something every tracks drivers should demand. I have heard of many cases over the years of drivers having heart attacks. An on-site paramedic team may have made the difference. All of this, not to mention the threat of fire. I have never seen a small track properly equipped to respond to a fire quickly. And a fire extinguisher doesn't cut it. Sure, this all costs money but will you care when its your car on fire or you trapped in your car with no one on scene to know what to do. Some tracks may have some training but not all. Kawartha has an emergency response team that is an excellent idea. Maybe others do as well but I haven't travelled a whole heck of a lot the last couple of years

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