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Canadian Oval / Road Racing => Canadian Racing Forums => Stock Car General => Topic started by: CanadianRacingOnline on September 10, 2013, 09:40:36 AM
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By Evan Towle
http://www.CanadianRacingOnline.com (http://www.CanadianRacingOnline.com)
We all know what happened at Richmond. So I'm not going in to details.
It seems like the message in all sports in this day and age. Kids cheating is a part of the sport and auto racing is included in these ranks of to be competitive and win you need too cheat.
It's a shame the message sent by NASCAR it's OK to cheat as a team and some will get hit hard and some will get a free pass.
This should not be the message we send to our kids. If you are in a team sport and your higher ups cheat the whole team should pay the price.
We have seen this in Collage football where a team was not aloud to play in bowl games and the season was canceled.
Here is some others Death Penalty http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA))
I'm not saying they should cancel a race teams whole season but allowing them to compete for a championship after they fixed the out come of a race and the chase??? Come on wake up NASCAR.
Maybe NASCAR needs to rethink this whole chase, as it's not working. Racing is not football, baseball, basketball or any sport that you have a playoff to get your championship. Racing is simple the person with the most points at the end of the race season is your champion plain and simple.
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Bowyer was involved in 2 issues, maybe should have been penalized more. Not sure any penalty should have applied to Truex, he drove like he was supposed to, and all of the manipulating started in the final stages of the race.
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Gary36 it seem Truex loses because of the team but not really as he would have not made it in. The thing that bothers me and many fans is bowyer gets to race for a championship? Something is truly wrong with NASCAR.
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I think NASCAR did one of there better decisions of all time in this ruling which is without precedent. The fact that they did anything at all is huge.
I was at martinsville with a scanner last year and Denny Hamlin told his crew chief he was going to spin in 3 to get a caution, every Saturday night at short tracks across North America and spun car/ flat tire will stay in the way to draw a caution, that is part of the sport( like taking a dive or drawing a penalty in other sports).
bowyer was locked in ( I am not a bowyer fan) but throw 43 points out and he as still in the chase so leave him in, do you think Jeff Gordon who has prickly past with Bowyer will let Clint win a title hmmmmm. I am a betting man I would will not be putting money on Bowyer to win the title.
As for the chase not working Jimmie would have already locked up the points and this Richmond night race would have been a 100% snooze festival with 0 drama that nobody would be talking about.
NASCAR set a message don't mess with the perceived integrity of our sport and if you wish to we will take action.
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they also had vickers pit about 3 times the last part of the race for no reason except to drop him down in the finishing order to get a point or 2 for truex...
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If it had been the first race of the season, would you be sitting there saying "Don't allow Bowyer in the chase"?
Probably not. So why should race 26 be any different than race 1.
He got his penalty, and because he's done well enough all year, he will still be in the chase. I'm not sure how slapping down points penalties, huge fines, and suspensions is telling kids it ok to cheat.
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I'm talking about the team point of it. If you look at teams that got the death penalty and lost a whole year of football and the majority of the players had nothing to do with it.
Bowyer got nothing plain and simple maybe Jeff's hands will be sore around the time he takes out bowyer.
Is your arms sore and it's hot in there?
Bowyer was jerking the wheel around.
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If there are fans of Nascar, or racing in general, out there that are suprised about what went on Saturday night, and believe that this is the first time stuff like that has happened, that need to get their heads out of the sand!
The only thing different about Saturday night, is that Bowyer didn't do a very good job at spinning himself out, he needs to practice that during some test sessions. He was caught that's all.
This has been going on for years, and anybody out there that doesn't believe that, is foolish for thinking so.
The whole Vickers thing wouldn't even be on the radar, had Nascar not investigated the 15 teams audio. How many times do cars pit for things like loose wheels, vibrations and fuel pick up issues and there's no questions asked.
The original reason that there are even teammates out there was to help the #1 driver win the race or the championship, the only thing that changed that was when the #2 drivers started running better than the #1 driver. It was widely known then and even now to savy fans. I just wanted to know when it became "taboo" to help out your teammate.
I agree that it warrants the point penalties, but to say that the 15 doesn't deserve a chase berth is what I have a problem with. They have been the model of consistency this year, and don't forget that he was robbed of a legitimate shot at the championship last season, and in my opinion that was way more obvious than what went down on Saturday.
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I like the outcome...22 car made the chase.. Carl won the race... 8)
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Cheating is part of the sport. Always has been, always will be. It is not just auto racing either. Although some call it innovation. There are thousands of stories out there. Some humourous some down right dirty. It is part of what makes racing interesting. A small part for sure. I could tell you things from the 70's but best not ;) Some say letting a guy lead a lap for a point is cheating, others say it is part of the game. Back before freezing the field the leader would let some get their lap back and not others. Was that cheating? Although we don't have conclusive evidence whether the 15 spun on purpose if it walks like a duck.........What the team was penalized for was pulling the 55 into the pits so Truex could gain a position. If this wasn't Richmond and the last race before the chase would anyone care? How is that any different then letting a teammate lead a lap? If there was conclusive evidence that the 15 spun on purpose I have no doubt that NASCAR would have turfed him from the chase. They chose to go with what they know and apply a penalty to MWR which then took Truex out of the chase so the offending action was penalized and the one that initially benefited did not gain from the offending action. I personally don't think MWR did anything wrong by pulling the 55 into the pits but it is what it is. Now at least going forward there is a precedent to go by since NASCAR's rule book doesn't spell anything out in this regard or much else really.
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And now this........What will NASCAR do now? If they do the same to Penske and Front Row will that take Lagano out of the Chase? Will have to do the math later.
From Jayski's
Penske deal with Front Row at Richmond to help Logano? UPDATE: Penske Racing may have cut a deal with Front Row Motorsports in the closing laps at Richmond for track position to help get #22-Joey Logano in the Chase for the Sprint Cup championship. In radio communications reviewed Wednesday by The Associated Press for Front Row driver #38-David Gilliland, his spotter informs the team of a request to let Logano pass him in the final laps of Saturday night's race. Logano was trying to claim a spot in the 12-driver Chase field. Both Penske and Front Row are Ford teams and thus considered partners. A voice on the radio, believed to be crew chief Frank Kerr, asks who the request is coming from. The spotter replies: "We've got the big dog and all his cronies." Kerr then says: "Travis knows what I've been asking for," an apparent reference to Penske Racing competition director Travis Geisler. Logano passed Gilliland on a restart and finished 22nd, one spot ahead of Gilliland and good enough for a berth in the Chase field. "Good job, good job, man," the spotter says after the race. "Hopefully we'll get something out of that." Statistics analyzed by AP also show Gilliland's lap times dropped off by almost 1 second from the times he was running prior to the radio communication.(Associated Press)(9-11-2013)
UPDATE: "NASCAR is aware of reports about the #22 and #38 radio communications at Richmond International Raceway and is looking into it, but has yet to see anything in full context that requires any action."(NASCAR)(9-11-2013)
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There's absolutely nothing wrong with what both the 55, 22, and front row teams did. The net result of both deals equates to 1 point gain for both the 22 and 56. That one point gain is the exact same as letting a guy lead a lap, or staying out under caution to lead a lap. THERE'S NO DIFFERENCE.
Why is it okay to do one but not the other?
Also remember when they raced back to the caution flag, and the leader was free to chose who they'd "let" get a lap back? That was okay too. The only reason they don't do that anymore is safety, not "in the interest of fairness"
This whole situation is a bunch of crap, and Nascar is going to regret taking any action on the matter.
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Oh yeah and Nascar HAS to penalize the 22, they just have to. The precident has been set. 50 points and $300,000. Get ready for the chase Gordon!
It's still a load of crap!
This whole thing smells of Hendrick conspiracy!
That oughta get some people fired up!
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The whole chase thing is a joke and not to many people liked it. Auto Racing is based on the driver with the most points of the end of the season is the champion plan and simple.
NASCAR is the cause of all these problems. Plain and simple they though they would try and make something better that was never broken.
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I agree Evan, the chase is a joke.
What they should do (but won't) is award 1 point per finishing position, and 1 point for the pole winner. That's all, no bonus points for leading a lap or leading the most. That should tighten up the standings a bit.
Possibly a bonus system that would work would be to "reset" with 10 races to go, but not like they do now. Something like award bonus points per win during the season, but no more than 5. That would put a premium on winning. It would have to be something that insures that the team with the most wins, is the points leader going into the final 10. All drivers are still eligible to win the championship.
Simple.
The chase, I'm over it, and after reading a bunch of blogs and forums on the whole Richmond fiasco, I know I'm not alone.
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If they thought that the 15 didnt spin on purpose and penalized the team for the 55 pitting then why did the 15 get 50 points deducted? Thought he did nothing wrong??? If the 55 pitted to intentionally help the 56 then only the 55 and 56 should have been penalized. Since the 15 was also docked the 50 points I am sure Nascar feels it was done on purpose but tried to put a spin on it. No pun intended
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We should find out in about 5 minutes. Press conference with BF and MH at Chicagoland.........
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Front Row and Penske on probation and they gave Gordon a mulligan and put him in the chase. So 13 drivers in the chase now.
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NASCAR is pretty close to jumping the shark here. To pretend like this has never happened before is to deny reality. The reason team mates came to be was to help get the A team a championship. The fact that everyone thought this was OK goes to the NASCAR rule book. Hendrick was the only reason this second decision was made. They don't have proof so why put Gordon in. I still don't agree with the penalty MWR got as they didn't do anything illegal except that there was a PR problem and they were stupid enough to keep talking on the radio. If they made the chase include the top 10 plus anyone with a race win that was in the top 20 none of this would matter or stay with the top 10 period. These decisions the last week look worse on NASCAR than anything MWR did or even Penske and Front Row Racing. The meeting next week better ban letting a guy get a point for leading a lap or this whole past week has been a farce.
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What a fiasco!!!, lots of empty seats at nascar races, tv ratings are down so Nascar is using this to pump up excitement for the final ten races!
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I guess this is. why earnhardt called him Golden Boy.!!! Let's see what happens at taledaga with drafting and blocking of team mates and manufacturers ...
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So today NASCAR has come up with a new rule to address what happened at Richmond. This tells me that what MWR wasn't illegal at the time except for the 'actions detrimental to the sport' catchall. Sounds like grounds for appeal to me. Close to jumping the shark here NASCAR.
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Kangaroo court was in session, what a joke!
They can come up with all the the new rules they want but the way they flip flop on rules they are not worth the paper they are wrote on!
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Lets remember, these sort of things aren't new in NASCAR. Teams have been cheating for as long as there have been teams. Anyone remember Richard Childress at Atlanta in 1993?
Neil Bonnett would also start the final race of the 1993 season in Atlanta, but he dropped out after just three laps. The reason the team gave for removing the car from the race was a blown engine, however Bonnett was teamed with points leader Dale Earnhardt, and the car was retired to assist Earnhardt in winning the season's championship. Earnhardt needed to maximize his finishing position, and by Bonnett quitting the race he was assured of those three championship points. That would be Bonnett's final cup start of his career.
Really, this whole thing is just a modern version of what Childress and Dale Sr. Did 20 years ago.
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And Even, lets be honest. I love racing, but there has always been 1000 times more cheating in racing that in all other sports put together. I am sure there were more fines for illegal parts in NASCAR this year than drug/equipment violations in all other major sports combined. The reason for this is obvious, where in racing sometime the technology is more important than the skill (Morgan Shephard has a better chance of winning in Austin Dillon's car than Dillon has winning in Shepherd's car). And don't get me wrong, skill is critical in winning, but the technology has more of a role than in any other sport, hence the desire to "gain an edge" or "work within the grey area" (cheat).
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The point in all this is that MWR, and I am no particular fan of that organization, was fined 300K and each team deducted 50 points for breaking a non-existent rule for doing something that we all know has been going on in NASCAR since the first beach race. NASCAR knows it too. Then they cite another non-existent rule to slide Gordon into the chase. The only difference now is EVERYBODY is watching and NASCAR got egg on their faces. Team orders was so accepted by NASCAR that Norris and others did not even think what they were doing was wrong and didn't worry about saying so over the radios. For NASCAR to now bring down the hammer like they never thought this type of thing was going on is hypocrisy to the Nth degree. In an earlier comment I said MWR now had grounds for appeal. But this is NASCAR so the rules don't apply. IF MWR did appeal I would expect black flags to be waved for no particular reason on the 15. NASCAR should probably fine itself for manipulating the outcome of a race when it throws the many mystery debris cautions. How many races finishing order have been changed by those? So we move forward with a 'New rule'. Lets see what happens when JJ slows down to let JG get a point for leading a lap. Should be interesting.
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Yes, should be interesting, but remember what Helton said in yesterdays press conference pertaining to the new rule, quote, " under certain circumstances we may have to intervene on the new rule", in other words Gordon or Johnson or whoever the favourite might be can probably be exempt from such rule if NASCAR DESIRES!