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Canadian Oval / Road Racing => Canadian Racing Forums => APC United Late Models of Ontario => Topic started by: Justin on November 09, 2014, 07:31:03 PM
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United Late Models of Ontario Tour Announcement[/url]
thoughts?
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A few concerns regarding new Late Model series:
1. Rules package - limited vs Pro vs ACT
2. Cost - tires, fuel, travel
3. Payouts - will the payouts be enough to help offset costs
All that said, sounds exciting.
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I'm cautiously optomistic. Its a great idea, but its also something that badly needs to happen. We arent just talking about a series, we're talking about whether or not LM racing has a future in Ontario.
The big question I have is this: are we really unifying the rules, or are we just handicapping what's already there? Ie "if you have X then the car has to weigh this, if you have Y then it has to weigh that. Add 25 lbs for this and add 50 for that, and so on and so on."
Because unifying track rules in Ontario is like trying to herd a group of cats into a bathtub full of water. And the organization that can actually pull that off will be the one to be able to say they saved LM racing in Ontario.
I genuinely hope that this is that group.
No pressure though. ;)
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I hope they line them up reverse of the points to start the race, like the Alstar series used to do. That's the biggest thing I miss when I go to the races anymore, is all the passing that created as the fast cars had to work their way through traffic to get to the front. If they start the races that way I might even drag my old car out and go racing again. I tried running specials after the Alstar series folded but it just wasn't fun to run as a mid pack car with no hope of ever getting to the front. Line it up with slower cars in front of me and at least I get to pass some people before the big dogs get there, and on the right night maybe you get a surprise winner
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I hope they line them up reverse of the points to start the race, like the Alstar series used to do. That's the biggest thing I miss when I go to the races anymore, is all the passing that created as the fast cars had to work their way through traffic to get to the front. If they start the races that way I might even drag my old car out and go racing again. I tried running specials after the Alstar series folded but it just wasn't fun to run as a mid pack car with no hope of ever getting to the front. Line it up with slower cars in front of me and at least I get to pass some people before the big dogs get there, and on the right night maybe you get a surprise winner
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The ALSTAR Series was good and FAST cars to back is way all the races should be, give the little guy's a chance.
In my opinion they need a common set of rules at tracks so you can run where ever you want on any given Sat. night like it used to be and all tracks had cars; but don't think we'll ever see that :)
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Seems like the common theme has returned...is it possible for all tracks to adopt the same rules package? The ALSTAR series was the end of that common denominator. ACT at Kawartha was an attempt to have a rules package that would allow racers to compete in Ontario, Quebec and the USA. To bad more tracks didn't adopt the ACT rules.
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Issue has always been the tracks don't want to loss their weekend divisions to a series. They want cars, their cars, at their track every night not traveling.
Nothing needed unifying rules more than thunder, but when OSCAAR considered to take them on all the tracks put pressure on OSCAAR not to so as to not lose their division racers. I can't see anything being different with LM.
How will this work with LM? Is this truly a series, or is it Sunset late model with a traveling spin on it?
I do wish them success however.
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i truthfully see the rules catering closer to the delaware lm rules. i personally think this is a good series IF the right things happen and the schedule lets it be open to run!
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Flamboro had 5 or 6 Late Models running regularly the last 2 months of the schedule.
Sauble 7/8, its embarrassing.
You are right, track owners want "their" cars, but, LM counts like that can't be bringing anyone in.
As much as I always disliked the track owners, generally these days I blame the racers themselves.
No one messes up a set of "new rules" like cheating/pushing the envelope/High $$ spending racers.
Here's hoping that it can cause a buzz in the LM scene.
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Problem tho LM18fan. If the tracks don't have LM, even 5-8 cars who is going to show up to their Saturday night show without LM on the ticket?
Is it the drivers or the track to blame for the costs, that's a classic chicken or the egg. Are the drivers cheating driving up costs, or do the drivers have to cheat because nothing is being enforced?
Its great to start a new series, but if its run the same as the tracks - high cost from cheating/lack of enforcing anything it will be the same old crap different pile, but might put the tracks out of business in the process. What is being done differently by this series than any other track on a Saturday night?
Again not knocking the series, but rather pointing the issue that need to be addressed before the first lap it turned to avoid a disaster. It can be done right as OSCAAR seems to have a higher level of tech than any track out there.
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LM17fan i can tell you being at many Flamboro meetings John Casale has numerous times asked "why do you guys wanna spend more money?"....you get a group of guys that want to make cars faster by spending more money...you have a group of guys that want their cars to be able to compete at other tracks...the guys that just wanted to run only Flamboro had to suffer...some say that is what is happening to the minis again now...over the years sunset and barrie have always pushed things further and others at varney and flamboro have had to catchup alot of times costing them more...i can go as far back as the challenger cars...
I loved the old Molson series days...late models and challengers series touring together, pits packed with cars from all the tracks, packed grandstands everywhere...Dizzy Dean did it right...maybe Spencer is the next Dizzy...or he is just dizzy...lol...
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Oh don't get all righteous about Slamborough, they were the first morons to stick 602's in Thunder cars, and host no rules invitations the Race of Champions.
That track, the track not the drivers, has driven costs up with the best of them.
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My guess at the location of the 8 races
Sauble, Sunset, Barrie, Peterborough, Flamboro, Capital City, and hopefully Cayuga and Kawartha ;D
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disagree i think sauble,sunset delaware,flamboro,peterbough,cayuga,kawartha
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No cayuga..no flamboro....so no onr wants to gi to Full throttle ??
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Kawartha is closed guys.
Huge money to rent the place, and LM alone aren't enough to fill a show. So unless they are part of the OSCAAR show good luck with KD.
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:) I realize Kawartha is closed, and you are right, the LM would need to be combined with other classes, but it is an great track. Just hoping that Kawartha and Cayuga are being discussed. Likely won't happen (need to be realistic).
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I for 1 am excited. I may have a mid pack car, low budget etc. but am looking forward to seeing where this goes. Might get guys like out to a couple of the races. I cold never afford to "tour" just due to travel costs for us ($250 in gas to run at Barrie every weekend and that's the closest track) but it would be great to maybe run a couple of the tour races rule depending of course..
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From what i hear its
2 Delaware
2 Flamboro
1 Sauble
2 Sunset
1 Peterborough
and i hear the first race is at sunset may 24 weekend and that cars are impounded after qualifing
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Does anyone have any updates from the meeting that was held yesterday?
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Lots of people there from all tracks....I think big spring cars and coil over cars weigh the same...2800 with built 2 bl...2825 with 4bl 6400 chip....only 4 new tires per race...after qualifying can only set air pressure...they are still taking suggestions. on shock rules...bodyMUST fit template...it will be the best racing in 2015!!
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where do I find more info on this series, I would have been at the meeting if I would have known anything about it
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Here is a link to an article on Speed51....
http://speed51.com/new-late-model-touring-series-formed-in-ontario/ (http://speed51.com/new-late-model-touring-series-formed-in-ontario/)
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Here is a link to an article on Speed51....
http://speed51.com/new-late-model-touring-series-formed-in-ontario/ (http://speed51.com/new-late-model-touring-series-formed-in-ontario/)
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I read the Article and it says "TIME TRAILS" to determine spots, what a waste of time that is, run heats that's what the fans like ")
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nascar329, I agree with you. If a spectator is going to follow the series across Ontario, they will want to see racing...not sit there at watch qualifying...boring!!!! i would rather watch qualifying heats, then start the points leaders near the back. It worked during the days of ALSTAR and made for great racing. It takes a great deal of talent, a good working car and a calm master at the wheel to get from the back to the front.
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nascar329, I agree with you. If a spectator is going to follow the series across Ontario, they will want to see racing...not sit there at watch qualifying...boring!!!! i would rather watch qualifying heats, then start the points leaders near the back. It worked during the days of ALSTAR and made for great racing. It takes a great deal of talent, a good working car and a calm master at the wheel to get from the back to the front.
...Thank you for seeing my point, it's just too bad the PROMOTORS & some drivers didn't get it to ") Drivers today say they don't like to start at back cause they might get involved in a wreck, I've been going to races a very long and top / fast cars were always at the back and it was good racing, they are just a bunch of wimps now.
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Back in the ALSTAR days the excitement was watching guys like Dave Morgan, Tom Walters, Jason Shaw, Todd Nagel, the cream of the crop, racing their way to the front. Yes there were wrecks, but there was a level of respect back then. All of these guys raced hard but they knew the race could not be won on the first lap. They had to be there at the end.
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All we need now are the rules...which combo 602,603 or 604 will have the advantage????
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Built motor will win ....sealed motors will get torn down this year lol
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anyone know if asa spec motor is allowed?
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All we need now are the rules...which combo 602,603 or 604 will have the advantage????
Well it's not the 602 I think it said 50 lb break
Did they forget cast 602 heads weights almost 70 lbs more
Then 604 heads??that cast head sits 3 ft off
the ground oh well that weight couldn't be in a worse place
that being Said this is a good thing for late model racing just not good for all like myself
My plan is too support delly for 5 races the other 2 apc races we shall see
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I just read rules on APC web and it says 75lb weight break at Sunset Sauble and Flamboro and 150 lb weight break at Delaware am I reading that wrong
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Nope I read it wrong but more then What u listed is not enough
Of a weight break for my non rebuilt. 602 as it came from the dealer maybe
A stefco rebuild would make it closer but then again most of the 604 have been
Rebuilt so the way I see it is I have to buy a new 604 and have it stefco sealed so
10,000 before I hit the track
So I won't be there good luck guys
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Just go over whw michigan...should be able to find a nice 383 chev short block for $ 1500...when was the last timd you seen a track check stroke ??.
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Question regarding rim/tire combination.
I note 15" x 10" rim
8" or 10" tire width?
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Everything would be off a 10 inch
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Thanks Mark.
So guys who have been running with ACT rules will definitely be at a disadvantage. Looks to me that the Delaware Boys will be at the front of the pack.
Am I missing something here?