Poll . 250 cc motorcross engine and 440 sled motor raced together ?

[DESAT10]

 Everyone in the 440 Micro class knows how hard it is to find 440 motors, what im proposing is that we run a 250cc liquid cooled motorcross motor as an alternate engine allong with the existing 440cc sled motors. One of the first years at Grand Bend Speedway they allowed a 250 cc car to run with the 440s. The 250cc motors are eadier to find, the are run in all shifter karts and the US micro sprint cars (they allow 270 cc max). They are cheeper to maintain and to buy, you only need to rebuild one cylinder and set up 1 carburator vs 2 of each in the 440. They have the transmission already included, thus more savings they are lighter allowing you to move more weight arround. The cars with 250cc engines can be push started , or using the kick start. These motors typically produce anywhere from 45 to 55 HP in stock settings and 60 to 70 HP with the same mods as the 440's. The 440's produce arround 50 HP stock and 70 HP with mods. In the 2008 season I will be fielding a car in that class, if approved I would run a 250cc engine in my car to prove that the car can be competitive and safe. The location of the rad is the other factor, placing it infront of the motor on the right side would be the ideal location. Anyways, give me your thoughts and ask around to see what others have to say!

Ryan Desat

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[Thayne]

Well 440 motors galore on www.dootalk.com

i think there are easily 5 on there right now...people are always doig conversions!

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[hurr15]

I think youre not looking in the right place, cause 440,s are a dime a dozen,,   how many do you want???
   

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[hurricane7]

  i have been with the hurricane midgets since 2001 and i think you have a very good idea .the 440 moters that most of us run are 25 to 30 years old .and when guys buy new they get the polaris racing moters at a high cost.or the sno pros .your idea merits some very good sound ideas .actually i can see down the raod that all cars would like those engines..the only problem i see is .when the hurricanes allowed them before some guys would lose the rad cap or rads on the track mostly do to not mounting them properly.i would say that on any cars they should be rubber shock mounted and double supported .also they should be tech inspected .that was were the hurricanes had there problem back in those yeras nobody really inspected anything..bring up your idea to brad at the bend he might be for it .the hurricanes will probably shot it down they are more closed minded..

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[OLDMAN]

Ryan, the 250 is a good idea for a couple of reasons.

They are easy to find and cheap. They are cheaper to fix than most of the antique sled engines. The engine and trans combination does away with those billet clutches that are both expensive and very hi maintenance. The trans allows for easy gear selection as well as no loading up on pace laps. Just me but that would save guys coin over the long haul.

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6956.msg36330#msg36330

[Thayne]

Ryan, the 250 is a good idea for a couple of reasons.

They are easy to find and cheap. They are cheaper to fix than most of the antique sled engines. The engine and trans combination does away with those billet clutches that are both expensive and very hi maintenance. The trans allows for easy gear selection as well as no loading up on pace laps. Just me but that would save guys coin over the long haul.

I don;t mean to get involved, but Ski-Doo 440's on DooTalk can be had that are basically new for 500 bones...they can't give them away!

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[hurr15]

If 440 shortage is a problem,, how about going up instead of going down......
    In the u.s the quarter midgets run 600cc, So how about snowmobile engine, electric start snowmobile drive and no bigger than 600cc,   get in and go,,

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[hurricane7]

    now we are talking chuck liquid 600s ..with suspention i would hope 

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[DESAT10]

Yes a 600cc bike engine class like the Can Am midgets but with chain drive insted of a $1500 quick change, would be great for a NEW class, deffinatly not on an existing suspended Micro let alone a rigid Hurricane.They both dont have the all important front breaks!. What this was about keeping the existing class and going a different direction. Soon they wont produce 2 stroke engines (5 to 10 years) and by running the 250 bike engine would start the progression and eaise of change to the 450 four stroke. (in 10 yrs or so) The liquid cooled motor is the way to go, if u notice which cylinder on the 440 that fails most often is not the fan side, its the overheated drive cylinder. A liquid cooled engine with one less clinder that has the same power and needs less frequent ring jobs etc makes sense as a alternate choice for new cars. This still allows the existing 440s to be compeditive and continue to be ran. I want to know if the 440 guys would ok the alternate choice of 250s and not feel it is a dissadvantage to them, or that the have to go out and get a 250 for their car. 250 liquid motors produced vs 440 fans produced is somewhere near 200 to 1, so its obvious which engines are more avalible.
   

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6956.msg36338#msg36338

[Wheelsspin]

Everyone in the 440 Micro class knows how hard it is to find 440 motors, what im proposing is that we run a 250cc liquid cooled motorcross motor as an alternate engine allong with the existing 440cc sled motors. One of the first years at Grand Bend Speedway they allowed a 250 cc car to run with the 440s. The 250cc motors are eadier to find, the are run in all shifter karts and the US micro sprint cars (they allow 270 cc max). They are cheeper to maintain and to buy, you only need to rebuild one cylinder and set up 1 carburator vs 2 of each in the 440. They have the transmission already included, thus more savings they are lighter allowing you to move more weight arround. The cars with 250cc engines can be push started , or using the kick start. These motors typically produce anywhere from 45 to 55 HP in stock settings and 60 to 70 HP with the same mods as the 440's. The 440's produce arround 50 HP stock and 70 HP with mods. In the 2008 season I will be fielding a car in that class, if approved I would run a 250cc engine in my car to prove that the car can be competitive and safe. The location of the rad is the other factor, placing it infront of the motor on the right side would be the ideal location. Anyways, give me your thoughts and ask around to see what others have to say!

Ryan Desat

I'm ok with your proposal. Actually I'm curious if a 250 bike engine will run with a 440 snow mobile engine? The biggest challenge next year with this class is to have a tech person with the knowledge to check these engines properly because your $500 bike engine or my $1000 440 won't have a chance against an $8,000 illegal engine.

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[hurr15]

It would only take a couple of weeks and then we would be porting heads, boring out our 250 to 266, lol
 getting rid of that one barrel 20 mm carb for a good mikuni 32....I can see it now.......

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[DESAT10]

hurr 15 like i said , same mods as the 440 , you can port and polish them! and run a different carb like the 440! As for displacement guys could cheat buy boring 440s out too 570s (different jugs) it all depends on how they are tec ed. Cheeting is always gonna happen , u just have to catch it! Displacement is easy to check, so as for your thoughs it can be  easily monitored.   

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[38lmcrew]

One of the reasons i got out of the "Sprint Class" was due to the "Old ways" of thinking, these points all have meritt, i do hope that as you all look at changes, look towards a motor package that will benefit larger people, as in having a left side or right side drive. Having a motorcyle engine/transmission is a great step toward a future. Also look at the frames, you may want to look toward chrome moly tubing for superior strength.

Sorry for my input, hope i havent offended anyone.
Dave King

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6956.msg36394#msg36394

[hurr15]

    Let me say that I really enjoy racing 440,s But on the other hand,  yes its time for a change...
       we should be all able to race together regardless of suspension or non suspension,   
  I would like to see similar to the u.s. (wider choices) 600 cc,s and by the way its the year 2007, everybody should have electric start.
   although there are still 440 motors available,  its time to open the variety up a little bit
      I am joining the grand bend group in 2009, cause my daughter will be turning 10 and she wants to get involved, So next year will be the last with the hurricanes for me.....
   

Linkback: https://www.canadianracingonline.com/smf/index.php?topic=6956.msg36395#msg36395

[hurr15]

If anybody has rolling chassis for 6.5 hp mini sprints,  let me know please, for 9 year old girl
www.gravelboy1@hotmail.com.




thanks

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