CanadianRacingOnline.com
Canadian Oval / Road Racing => Canadian Tracks => Delaware Speedway => Topic started by: Racer43 on July 13, 2013, 12:51:08 PM
-
the Great Canadian 200 might not be that if we don't find a way to get some more cars out. 16 cars for 200 laps might be a bit of a snore.... I don't know what the answer is, but I'm thinking this aint going to be pretty if more don't show up. Is the speedway staff actively approaching the other LM track teams? I remember when Wilcox was running the show he was down at Flamboro a lot talking to the teams there. What about the Limited guys, are we enticing them to come? Jesse won last night with a 602 crate and basically a limited chassis. I think they have the rules as such now a limited can do very well at Delaware in a longer race. However running it on saturday afternoon kind of kills all hope of any visitors coming from up north?? hmmm, scratching my head about this scheduling this year. Just throwing this out there... any thoughts???
-
Last nights late model race was very boring to be honest. Spread out with a few battles but nothing much. A typical friday night 40 lapper... great you guys make it a great show. You are right though. 16 cars for 200 laps... absolute snore fest.
-
Considering we have just lost two tracks this should be easier but........
Delaware, Flamboro, Sunset, Barrie, Pete, Varney, Sauble. Seven tracks which have the majority of racers in this Province. Get together and have one big race for each class (LM/LLM and SS/Thunder) at each track. LM and SS don't have to be the same dates so each track can still run a show minus one class. Don't compete with each other for those dates. Count points for each track as competitors finish against each other from their own tracks or show up points. Come up with a minimum number of cars that need to show from each track and share the gate between tracks. Distribute the race purse by track competitors and overall (this will eliminate the LM/LLM differences). Home track rules. One Tech from each track travels with their cars.
Just some thoughts. Don't kill me ;-)
-
teams just don't travel like used to it costs way to much (ex)varney paid 80 dollars tow 1200 win at there 50 lapper that's a 3 hour drive id love to go but 80 bucks ??small teams wont show up if I was to go to to a race 3 hrs away 6 tires 980 dollars plus race fuel 200,pit fee 125,food 125,travel gas 200,plus any damage =around 1600 for one night .....and there is the reason no one travels,so count the peter guys out ,count the sunset guys ,only maybe the flammy guys might come down,(but they didn't for the 75 lapper last night changing set ups is a lot of work also )16 cars inst much maybe cut it back 150?100?i wish I knew how to get the cars back ......
-
I think I had mentioned to Jay previously that the ludicrous starting time (and date for that matter) because the track seems afraid that they might lose a few fans to the Nascar truck race at Mosport, 200 miles away, shows that the track has little faith in it's top division or fans.
And the major problem we have, is that the various tracks have become beholden (is that a word) to the tire suppliers for their points funds and naturally, it's a different supplier & brand at every track. It maintains the Island mentality. (Just like this new V-8 stock class seems to be unique only to Delly)
Secondly, last night's 75 lap yawner paid $1250 to win. How many teams came remotely close to making expenses?. The 75 lapper at Flammy (Grisdale race) did have 21 cars with Jamie Cox being the only Delly car and it paid $3000 to win. There's another 20 late models that potentially could run at Delly.
It all comes down to money. Purses seem stuck at at 1980's level and the excuses run rampant as to why. Fans are getting bored with a less than great product and stay home.
IMO we have to either open up the rules to home track tires, or get rid of the single tire supplier and make it open to all mfgs. but with a common durometer reading. Even if it means a reduction in the points fund, most teams are paying for the points fund anyways with inflated tire prices
-
I actually think we're seeing the end of a shift in LM racing that started years ago. The reality, I fear, is that the climate is just not there anymore to entice teams to travel to large events. LM has become, in this area, a weekly level division and nothing more. I doubt there's many Late Models being built or bought now with the idea of travelling track to track.
There's novels to be written on the why's, and the fixes for this, but the bottom line is that any track hosting a big LM event has to basically give OTHER track owners a reason to make allowances that would make it easier for their talent to travel....something beyond "well it'd just be really nice to have a 30 car field like in the old days"
But so far I can't think of any, beyond doing some sort of home and home series with another track...sort of like what we tried with Flammy a couple years back. (awesome idea, and pretty decent series...but no money behind it. None that was going to the drivers anyway.)
What I think would be a definite shot in the arm for larger LM shows around here would be another Ontario travelling series, sort of like ALSTAR was. It would need a big league sponsor, an old school promoter, and a solid core of 'franchise" drivers...but it could be done. (It never fails to astound me that both SLM and Sportsman Cup both have good solid travelling series that get decent car turnouts...and regular LM's got nothing.)
Anyway, I know in the end of the Wilcox/Scherba era they were looking at hooking up with a US based travelling series, and possibly making the Labor Day race a stop on that series schedule, but nothing ever came of it.
-
Agree with Mike the tire thing is stupid.
Disagree that prize money is the issue. It might be for a few guys...but not the majority.
Maybe the answer is to try a straight up "run what ya brung" tire rule for the Labor Day race, say with a 10 inch max.
If tracks are going to be serious about trying to entice other drivers, they need to fix this. Problem is they don't really want to get serious about it. And neither do the tire sponsors.
(and don't quote me because I'm not sure - but don't be surprised if past management at Delly signed into something that current management can't get out of at the moment.)
-
A little off topic perhaps, but relating to money; there was a $400 bonus on Friday night's 75 lapper for the "top registered LM from a visiting track", plus a minimum payout of $250.
There wasn't a single driver there from another track . . .
-
great posts guys. I to have wondered (and have expressed to track management), why in the world would they ever schedule this race on a Saturday afternoon start time or on a Saturday at all? This will kill any hopes of any visitors coming from other tracks. But on that note, I also think that drivers / car owners don't travel like they used to. For whatever reason, they are not like the teams of years ago. I'm sure it involves costs, purses, travelling, family times ,etc that all come into play. Drivers years ago would race 2 or 3 times a week. I don't think drivers now want to do that, maybe spending more time with the family. I know many a driver from years ago, that the family, house, etc came second after racing. I don't believe that happens now and that's good. It doesn't help us fans though. lol.
I don't think that the travelling series is the answer. The OSCAAR super late models have a great group of drivers and cars. Interesting, though, it seems the same guys win all the time. I walked out on their show a Delaware last year before it was finished, because it was a terrible show. It doesn't work all the time! The Sportsman Series is okay. The car counts are not solid though as mentioned. How many cars were at Varney this year for their show and Delaware had a decent showing of 21 cars, but 4 of those cars were Delaware super stock regulars.
It's not only tracks up here that are having trouble. I just read that the Toledo Super Late model Gold Cup series started only 14 cars for their 100 lapper this past Friday night. I believe they pay $2500 to win for their 100 lappers. If any one can remember back, Toledo was "THE" place for their super late model shows.
I wish I knew the answer to all this, because I'm worried some more tracks may not be around in the coming years.
Back to original topic! I agree with Jay 100%. I really think the current planning and schedule for the GC200 is heading for a disaster as far as car count and also possible spectators. Lets not forget the last Saturday GC200 show a couple years ago!!!!
I really think the current Management at Delaware has made some great strides in bringing rules in line and trying to make the track operate on "break even" level, which had to be done to keep it going.
I think they are great business men, I just hope they have the great passion for racing that is needed.
-
I can't speak for any current Flamboro Late Model teams, but I think the fact that Flamboro currently has 5 late model specials on the schedule (all which pay better than Delaware specials) is going to deter teams from having any desire to travel. Once you try to run a full Flamboro weekly schedule, which is about 12 races, then tack on those high paying specials, that's a pretty full season. And you're running at a track where you know the setup and have a better shot at winning.
Back five or six years ago when we had a Flamboro Late Model, we said every season that we were going to come to Delaware for Canada Day or the Labor Day 200, but the season wears on you, and you get closer to those dates, and it becomes a lot easier to come up with reasons to not go...like extra cost for an inventory of 8 inch tires, or needing to get everyone off work early if its a friday, or the simple fact that the odds of having a legitimate shot to win or run top five against the locals is slim to nil.
Now we have two Flamboro Thunder Cars, and the same logic applies to the Super Stock invitationals at Delaware...and the payout isn't real great either. We could use our own tires, but you're going to burn up a set over 70 laps, which is over 500 bucks in cost.
I do think that a home-to-home series like Sunset and Sauble tried this year could be good...if there was decent money behind it. Shut one track down for the weekend for their regular LM and TC/SS and bring in something else while the home-to-home runs the other facility. If you put show up points and some extra cash on the line, I think you would see at least 20 cars in each class.
-
the Great Cdn used to be a show that was run on a day when other paved tracks were not, bringing in a lot of spectators from other tracks for their once a year visit. Moving it to a Saturday when a majority of the local short tracks are running is puzzling.
Oscaar too is a puzzle-after having 23 and 20 cars at their last two Sunset shows, 13 late models (and 12 mods) showed up last night at Sauble. The fan just doesn't know what to expect any more.
ps-Jason Shaw and his son were at Ohsweken Friday spectating rather than spectating/participating at Delaware. Same with Jeff and Cayden Lapcevich. Maybe that speaks volumes............
-
the Great Cdn used to be a show that was run on a day when other paved tracks were not, bringing in a lot of spectators from other tracks for their once a year visit. Moving it to a Saturday when a majority of the local short tracks are running is puzzling.
Oscaar too is a puzzle-after having 23 and 20 cars at their last two Sunset shows, 13 late models (and 12 mods) showed up last night at Sauble. The fan just doesn't know what to expect any more.
ps-Jason Shaw and his son were at Ohsweken Friday spectating rather than spectating/participating at Delaware. Same with Jeff and Cayden Lapcevich. Maybe that speaks volumes............
it may speak volumes or maybe not,its tough to leave your back yard and kick butt guys like doerr,jesse,cox, to name a few are hard to beat ,and vice versa its tough to go flammy and beat those guys in there back yard ,so that may be a reason those guys don't travel,and they don't see many delly guys at there place,so maybe they just wanted to watch some dirt racing and spend some time with there boys outside the pits IMO
-
it just seems that rather than finding an alternate place to race when their home track is off, they'd rather become spectators
-
And yet as we sit here and talk of car count struggles, Ohsweken, Merritville and Humberstone have upwards of 50 cars per class, eliminations and last chance races every night, and (for the most part) packed grand stands. And if you listen to the roll call on the pace laps, they are from EVERYWHERE--in Sprint cars they come from all over the northeast, including several states. Even in the Thunder cars,
Why not look to the dirt tracks for answers? WHAT are they doing differently? And sorry I don't buy the "dirt racing's just better" argument that I'm sure an Ohsweken troll is about to respond with. Racing is racing, if it's close and exciting it doesn't matter what surface it's on.
So what, about the racing package, is better at the dirt tracks? We know they have identical rules packages for for every single touring class (LMs, LLMs, Modifieds, Midgets, 360 Sprints, 305 Sprints, 410 Sprints, etc etc)... That most certainly helps draw in teams from elsewhere. We also know they alternate nights, which helps too.
But it must go further... Are the tires much longer lasting, and therefore cheaper, in the lower classes? There's inherently less wrecking and therefore less repair/rebuild to be done in general. The 4 cylinder classes are GIGANTIC, so they must have something in the rules that makes it more worthwhile to race in that class than elsewhere...
What else is there? I can't imagine the payouts are much better, at least not for the small classes. Do they offer haul money?
-
The cost of racing on dirt is a lot less. We can still run tires that we bought in 2010. If you don't get in a wreck or blow up the week to week costs are much lower. The first year we ran mini stock at Ohsweken the biggest weekly cost was fuel for the tow rig! Watch the videos from Ohsweken, in every class you will see 3 and 4 wide in the turns and battles from the lead all the way back to the tail enders. That's one of the things I love about dirt if your filling the line on the bottom I can go to the top or middle or where ever I find some grip and make a run at you, no bump and run needed just drive by you. There is always someone to battle with, be it for the lead or the last transfer spot from the consi. Also watch how the show goes off at the "BigO" very little dead time for the fans once hot laps start the program runs like a clock. Checkered falls you exit at turn 2 as the next race pulls on the track at turn 3 and gets the 1 to go flag, next time by it's green flag. 10:30 loaded and on the way home some nights. Sorry my post wondered a little (gotta get off midnights) but I'm sure you get the idea.
Speedway July13/ 13Highlights- date is wrong in video[/url]
-
I figured tires were a big reason.
In fairness, Delaware has the "show must go on" thing down-pat too. There's very little lost time, and everything runs smoothly and quickly. I think that's true of any well-run track.
-
In fairness, Delaware has the "show must go on" thing down-pat too. There's very little lost time, and everything runs smoothly and quickly. I think that's true of any well-run track.
Agreed.
-
it just seems that rather than finding an alternate place to race when their home track is off, they'd rather become spectators
count me in that group, i wouldve got sick of racing long ago if it wasn't for some relaxing nights just hanging out at tracks.
-
it just seems that rather than finding an alternate place to race when their home track is off, they'd rather become spectators
count me in that group, i wouldve got sick of racing long ago if it wasn't for some relaxing nights just hanging out at tracks.
same here like going to watch lot less workl lol and cheaper
-
IF YOU PUT UP A BIG ENOUGH PURSE THE RACERS WILL COME. BUT IN ALL FAIRNESS THE ECONOMY IS HURTING ALL SPORTING EVENTS IN GENERAL. IT COSTS US $1,000 A NIGHT TO RACE AT DELAWARE. THIS YEAR MORE LAPS LESS MONEY. BUXTON CUT THE PURSE ALSO. CHEAPER TO PARK THE CARS. 6 LATE MODELS AT BUXTON.BUILT MOTORS PENALIZED BY WEIGHT. TO MUCH TECH FOR THE MONEY. IF YOU HAVE 6 TO 10 CARS PUTTING ON A CLOSE SHOW (NO PROTESTS) WEIGH THEM AND PUT THEM IN THE BOX.TRANSPONDERS TELL THE TIMES OF CARS DURING PRACTISE AND QUALIFYING AND DURING THE RACE...HOW CAN A GUY PICK UP HALF A SECOND FROM ONE WEEK TO ANOTHER....DING DING DING HE NEEDS TO BE TECHED...LOOK AT THE CONSISTENCE OF THE 81, 72, 38 (ONLY AS EXAMPLES) WEEK IN WEEK OUT I KEPT A CHART EVERY WEEK OF TIMES..HOW MANY WEEKS AND HOW MANY DIFFRENT WINNERS....GOOD CLOSE RACING.....SOMETIME TRACK OWNERS DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO THE RACERS WHO ATTRACT THE CUSTOMERS..AND YES THE ALSTAR SERIES WAS ONE OF THE BEST SERIES
-
Just because we've strayed a little bit...what do you guys think could be done in the next month and a half that would bring a big field in for the 200?
With respect to Paul, I just don't think a big purse is the answer. Not sure what its set at this year, but previous years we've seen 10,000 to win and still have struggled bringing cars in from elsewhere.
I've floated the idea of a run-what-you-brung tire rule...but I don't think that will fly given the political climate. (it'd be nice to be wrong about that though...and I very well could be)
Any other idears?
As I've said earlier, i think you could write a novel on what's wrong with LM racing in Ontario...but turning a lot of that stuff around won't help us for this years GCR.
-
There is A LOT of oldschool idealism at Delaware, and it hangs hard in the air. I will be blunt when I say this. There has been great improvements, but again the stand-alone rules screw counts. Many guys run different tires, across the board. Is there a way to even this up? If not find a solution for ALL tracks, next year. Work together, and get it done. If you stand alone, you will all die together. There's loads of LM parked, across this racing community, from the same issues. Lowered payouts, and guys not willing to fork out for tire rules. Either lighten rules across the boards, and work it out with either weights or something CHEAP for the guys... or keep going the way you are now....
-
Maybe a run-what-u-brung format, any late model, then run time trials, and have everyone add handicap weight based on the times?
-
How about switching nights with the Friday night card.......the 200 lapper under the lights!!!
-
Maybe a run-what-u-brung format, any late model, then run time trials, and have everyone add handicap weight based on the times?
i even have the perfect name for it...."The
Great Canadian Sand-Bag-A-Thon" lol
-
If you could just get the tracks to go to a common set of rules for LM for Ontario then you could get some more things to happen. Home track tires, OK, whatever. But make the rest the same for the province and everyone wins. Then the Great Canadian 200 could also be the All Ontario Late Model Championships final shoot out!!.
-
If you could just get the tracks to go to a common set of rules for LM for Ontario then you could get some more things to happen. Home track tires, OK, whatever. But make the rest the same for the province and everyone wins. Then the Great Canadian 200 could also be the All Ontario Late Model Championships final shoot out!!.
After all the years and different rules packages we've seen between LM and LLM at all the tracks, I still think Kawartha went the smartest direction with ACT based rules...even though they ended up on an island.
Smaller motors (you could base with 602 instead of the ZZ4 ACT uses), 2 barrel carbs, 8 inch tires and rims, spec shocks, no bump stops/coil bind, no 2 speed trannies, no offset chassis, etc etc. I think its a great rules package for keeping costs down and keeping the cars slowed down some, which in my opinion allows for better competition.
The best late model race I've seen around here in the past 5 or more years was the 200 lap ACT show at Kawartha back in 2008 i think it was. It was a huge field and there was a ton of side by side racing. Part of that was the track and not the rules, but I think the theory holds.
-
at delly all 4bbl,almost all on bumps 99 %,all on 10 inch rims,almost all 2 speeds .....I cant see them going that way we only have 16 cars now if that was brought in they would have zero although there is a few 602 cars ,delly rules are fine the way they are ,
-
No one saying Delly's rules are bad, the hard line is cost of tires. If you add in gear changes, travel time, fuel, possibly overnight accommodations,a race weekend can be staggering. All in all, finding a way to get people to the track, and continually returning is the key. Adding weight, or donkey-punching someone to slow them down doesn't always make them leave. I'm pretty sure most of us know of one track in the area that does enforce a good set of fairness rules, and regularly have B mains because there's too many cars. It sure as heck isn't the payouts, if you look at their structures. This doesn't work for all classes, LM's should be free to do a little more to get an edge to a point. I mean that is the essence of racing. Most teams race because they love it, obviously not to make money. But burning little Jimmy's college tuition to take the family racing for one night, puts people back a bit. Just saying.
-
Delaware and Flammy rules are the same now except the tires. Flammy uses the 10" American Racers because the owner or promoter has an in with that company. The rest of the province uses Hoosier 980s. Yes some guys run them on 10" rims but not all. That is beside the point. The problem here is that the only other Pro Late model track is running different tires than the rest of the province. The answer is not to bite the bullet and get the 10" American racers because it makes no sense. RUN what the rest of the province is on and right there you will gain a car or two. Delaware has done a good job also in the motor department they tacked on (too much) weight to the ASA motors and now they are at a disadvantage. But this was good. 15k for a motor is a little silly. Now you just need 10k for a rebuilt from Leitch and you can win races.
All in all the 200 will suffer this year, just like the 150 at sauble will suffer. Tire rules and motor rules bs keeps guys away. egos get hurt and pouty faces happen. But as Jesse put it in the free press a few weeks ago "You don't win a lot in this game, you need to be okay with that"
-
I 100% agree with the above post about Flamboro needing to be on the 8 inch tires. And I don't think you'd have to go to Hoosier since they have the longstanding connection with American Racer. I know American Racer makes 8 inch tires...then you're really drawing comparisons between durometer readings as far as bringing tires from one track to the other between Hoosiers and American Racers. But it was done before when Kawartha was on Goodyears and everyone else was on Hoosiers.
But just a couple of winters ago when Flamboro opened up the LM tire debate, I thought they would be leaning towards 8 inch, but the end result to come out of it ended up being an even softer left side 10 inch tire. That's the point where I kinda lost my desire to move up to LM there, cuz the cars got a little faster and the passing got a little less frequent.
-
No one saying Delly's rules are bad, the hard line is cost of tires. If you add in gear changes, travel time, fuel, possibly overnight accommodations,a race weekend can be staggering. All in all, finding a way to get people to the track, and continually returning is the key. Adding weight, or donkey-punching someone to slow them down doesn't always make them leave. I'm pretty sure most of us know of one track in the area that does enforce a good set of fairness rules, and regularly have B mains because there's too many cars. It sure as heck isn't the payouts, if you look at their structures. This doesn't work for all classes, LM's should be free to do a little more to get an edge to a point. I mean that is the essence of racing. Most teams race because they love it, obviously not to make money. But burning little Jimmy's college tuition to take the family racing for one night, puts people back a bit. Just saying.
I never said he did or anyone did .....he was stating here are the rules he would have ....I was stating Delaware would have no late models ,if we ran those rules ,also I was stating delly LM rules are fine(as far as the old ACT motor rules I wasn't there I have no dog in that fight) I own a late model and pay for it and drive it,im happy with the rules as they are ,also if you look back to page 1 of this topic,I wrote about how much it costs to travel the example was varney,and the big cost in that race was the tires ,and the crappy pay out,the truth is nobody has the answer,to making the 200 full of cars and I sure as hell would not want to own any race track,i do think theres lots of good idea that come from this fourm/topic maybe there reading maybe not but in the end its on them,but I do know one thing for sure .... I will be there running havin a blast even if its on new/old tires .....
-
I'm curious about something. Delly has a tire inventory rule. You're only allowed like 1 new tire a week or something, yes?
If Flammy has the same rule (which I cannot find, so I'm not sure) then even saying they can run their 10 inch AR tires doesn't really help any does it? What I mean is that they would have to dip into their own inventory...correct?
And lol...would that mean they had to pay Delaware's 25 dollar per tire fine for not buying from McColls? :D
-
I'm curious about something. Delly has a tire inventory rule. You're only allowed like 1 new tire a week or something, yes?
If Flammy has the same rule (which I cannot find, so I'm not sure) then even saying they can run their 10 inch AR tires doesn't really help any does it? What I mean is that they would have to dip into their own inventory...correct?
And lol...would that mean they had to pay Delaware's 25 dollar per tire fine for not buying from McColls? :D
No inventory rule at Flamboro. There is about 5 or 6 teams that are bolting on 4 brand new tires each week. Talking to some drivers about an inventory rule, some really want an inventory rule in place, and some have said they would quit if one was put into place.
The 10 inch AR tires used to be allowed at Delaware for specials, but they had to be used. I think that went away after David Elliott finished 2nd in the 200 as a Flamboro regular. But I don't blame Delaware for not allowing them, because the term "used" can be very loosely interpreted unless tech is going to measure tread depth, but that's a lot of extra hassle on a busy special event race day. Plus Flamboro likely wouldn't allow Hoosiers, because Grisdale sponsors the LM class and most of the specials, and they are the AR tire dealer. I think its right in the rules somewhere that to qualify for full payout for specials you have to run tires purchased at Grisdale.
-
The difference in tires is part of the reason the Flamboro cars wont come, but more importantly they have a scheduled points event that night. Whats makes Delaware think guys are going to miss that to come run the 200? I have talked to some of the Flamboro guys and they say its more than the tires that keep them away.
Is there any other options for the format that will make a 20 car or less field more exciting for the fans other than TT's and a 200 lap race? We used to run twin 50's a 100 and call it the GC200. How about bringing the Lucas Oil Sportsman in to run a 100 lapper along side a LM 100?? Would have to be a none points event for them, but they drew a reasonable car count for their visit and the race was quite entertaining.
It would be nice to hear Delaware's take on this.... they must be confident that all is good and that by some small miracle cars will come out of no where and all will be fine. I doubt it, but hey me just dumb driver!!!
-
The difference in tires is part of the reason the Flamboro cars wont come, but more importantly they have a scheduled points event that night. Whats makes Delaware think guys are going to miss that to come run the 200? I have talked to some of the Flamboro guys and they say its more than the tires that keep them away.
Even when we were hip deep in that WWS thing, those guys still didn't come as a rule, except maybe for Elliott and Shaw. And this is when you and Jesse and Jamie would go - sometimes we'd have a half dozen Delly cars in their pits. Its depressing to have all these great LMs in the province, and still not be able to get em' all in one place for an event.
Is it just because they see racing at Delaware as being really hard on equipment? I know there's a few guys who have voiced that over the years.
-
Is there any other options for the format that will make a 20 car or less field more exciting for the fans other than TT's and a 200 lap race?
A water trap on the front straight, or how about applying BoneStock rules - No cautions and play it as they lie.
In all seriousness, I do hope it's a good show and that EVERYONE leaves the event happy.
-
So what happened to the mid week show with the Nascar stars?? It drew a lot of fans and cars..with the Nascar truckracing at mosport on Labour day I am sure they could hire a few to race at delaware
-
It costs a lot of money. and the new owners aren't willing to spend it on a one race deal.
-
It would be nice to hear Delaware's take on this.... they must be confident that all is good and that by some small miracle cars will come out of no where and all will be fine.
The format for the race is still being put together. The ideas here have been interesting to get a look at. The speedway is glad to see there are still lots of people who believe in the Great Canadian Race.
The Great Canadian Race has not truly delivered for the track (or the drivers) in a number of years (arguably since the WWS days). This is something we would very much like to turn around.
There have been some great (dare I say legendary) events on that program over the last number of years but the event has struggled to pull drivers. Interestingly, even when the event has pulled large fields the crowds were still lagging behind the target necessary to make the event strongly viable. The speedway has kept the event going largely out of tradition: this has been an annual event since the 80s and is steeped in history.
Regardless of the Mosport event, the speedway was moving towards a two-day Labour Day Weekend. Statistically in our market spectators will pick one night out of whatever you schedule on the weekend (this is true for the ISMA weekend as well). Further, fans have gravitated towards the cheaper Friday night, usually with local divisions plus King of the Hill for the $16 rather than pay the increased admission triggered by the increase to prizing at the GCR.
Just some thoughts to shape the ongoing conversation.
-
We all believe in the GCR John, but the scheduling the past few years has made us all shake our heads I think. Its really not rocket science to not schedule a big event on the same night every other track in Ontario is running. I am still puzzled by this years date, makes no sense at all in my mind.
To quote Snotrod.... In all seriousness, I do hope it's a good show and that EVERYONE leaves the event happy.
Even tho we all know that's not possible...
Thanks for chiming tho John, we appreciate hearing from the brass
-
Although I have enjoyed reading this thread and the ideas everyone has put forward, I find it extermely frustrating. The solution for todays LM fiasco presented itself a few years ago but a couple of track promoters, namely Flamboro and Delaware decided to balk at the idea. The ACT model has been proven for decades and the proof is in the car counts at any of their races, especially the specials. They have 98 cars listed on the 2013 driver page. ( Dont tell me some are on there that haven't raced this year because there are some that have that are not. ) Derek thought he had both tracks on board but that fell through, for reasons only those two promoters know. I have heard rumor in the past that each wanted to have the fastest LM in the province. Why??? Fans can't tell the difference in a few tenths. Kawartha adopted the rules package anyway and costs were kept down and half decent car counts followed. I know many of you will say that Flamboro and Delaware counts were at least as good but they have an advantage. Greater population to draw drivers and fans from and a much bigger economy from Toronto west. You can't argue that. They also had two tracks within 20 minutes of Kawartha to contend with. I don't think anyone here can argue that if costs were kept in check, as they have always been by Curley, that the LMs at Delaware and Flamboro would have strong counts. And if each track has the same, cost saving rules, there would be 50 or 60 LMs between the tracks to draw a great field of cars for the specials.
If all three had adopted ACT rules back then the LLM class probably would never have needed to happen. I am sure Sunset and Sauble, and possibly Varney and Barrie may have adopted them as well. I can gaurantee you that the cost of running a competitive ACT LM is much less than the cost of a top running LLM at Sunset. The costs for a driveline alone that I have heard for some of those guys is crazy, not to mention the tens of thousands for a competitive chassis.
By now you can sense my frustration. It's been the same solution every fan in Ontario has had for years but none of the promoters can seem to realize it. In my younger years I would never, EVER, miss a LM invitational anywhere. This year I have been to a grand total of 1 LM race. The WoO LM race at Brighton. Yes DIRT, They get it.
Is it too late for the LM asphalt crowd to turn things around? Unfortunately I think so. Costs have continued to skyrocket and promotors continue to make bad decisions regarding rules and race dates. Unless drivers, promoters and sponsors are willing to bite the bullet and adopt a common, cost effective rules package for all of Ontario racing, nothing will change. And I can't see that happening.
Imagine, Kawartha, Peterborough, Sunset, Sauble, Varney, Delaware, Flamboro, Barrie and Capitol City all running under the ACT rules package or one similiar to it that keeps costs reasonable and allows the lesser teams to compete with the big boys. If each track had 15 registered drivers that would be close to 150 cars and 15 per track is being conservative for some. Oh, what specials we would have.
too bad it will never happen
-
Well said Slap.
-
1NH Corey Mason
1VT Brett Wheeler
3NH Mike Kenisen
3QC Sylvain Lacombe
4NY Brandon Atkins
4VT Paul Schartner Jr
5QC Patrick Cliche
5VT Booby Therrien
7ME Glen Luce
7NC Ben Lynch
7NH Scott MacMichael
8NH Guy Caron
9NH Kyle Welch
9ME Emily Packard
9NY Hunter Bates
9QC Christopher Roberge
9VT Chip Grenier
10MA John Falconi
10NH Bryan Mason
11QC Claude Leclerc
11NY Josh Masterson
12NH Katrina Caney
12ON Leo Poirier
12QC Rejean Bissonette
13QC Patrick Boyer
13NH Luke Shannon
14VT Phil Scott
15ON Derek Lynch
16NH Travis Fadden
16ME Travis Steams
17MA Eddie MacDonald
17ON Justin Holtom
17RI Ray Parent
17VT Lance Allen
18VT Jamie Fisher
19QC Danny Treenier
20NY Bucko Branham
20QC Eric Lehoux
20QC Mario Gosselin
21QC Jean-Francois Dery
21NH Donny Lashua
23ME Dave Ferrington Jr
25ME Shanw Knight
25NY Kevin Boutin Jr
25VT David Whitcomb
26VT Mike Bailey
27NH Wayne Heliwell Jr
27QC Marco Savoi
27QC Marc-Andre Cliche
28ME Rowland Robinson Jr
29NH Allen Fellows
30NH Rich Dubeau
31NH Luke Hinkley
31QC Steven Boissonneault
32MA Jerry Dawson
32VT Jean-Paul Cyr
34NH Todd Davis
36NH Tyler Alati
37VT Ben Hoar
38QC Gaeten Gaudreault
40QC David Michaud
40VT Eric Chase
40VT Nick Sweet
41QC Jonathan Bouvrette
42VT Mathew White
42MA Lane Chase
44QC Pier Luc Oullette
44VT Dave Pembroke
47NH Brock Davis
48QC Alex Labbe
49NH Matt Anderson
50ME Jeff White
50VT Jay Laquerre
51NH DJ Shaw
51QC Patrick Hamel
55VT Brent Dragon
58VT Jimmy Hebert
60VT Derrick O'Donnell
61VT Joey M. Laquerre
66QC Maxime Pelletier
68VT Brooks Clark
71ON Dan McHattie
75QC Marco Bilodeau
77MA Jimmy Linardy
77NH Brandon Lambert
78NH Quinten Welch
78QC Stephane Decoste
80QC Donald Theetge
81ON Bryan Mercer
83QC William Roberge
84QC Martin Goulet
85VT Trampas Demers
87NY Daniel Petronis
88VT Nick Sweet
89VT Scott Payea
94ME Scott Martin
97QC Jacques Poulin
97NH Joey Polewarczyk Jr
95NH Pat Floyd
98QC Etienne Cliche
98VT Kevin Elliot
99VT Cody Blake
02NH Randy Potter
05NH Ricky Bly
05VT Craig Bushey
07MA Tom Carey Jr
Actually 106 cars have raced an ACT event this year. 27 from QC and 5 from ON. And most of these drivers and teams have been part of this series for years. Tom must be doing something right. Its just a shame that many of the ACT cars that can no longer run at Kawartha must change their cars to run with the LLM, run against far superior cars at Delaware or Flamboro ( which none have done ), travel to the states and Quebec ( which a couple have done ) or just park them ( which many have done ). If Ontario adopted ACT rules when the window was open our list could be even larger than this one.
-
I can gaurantee you that the cost of running a competitive ACT LM is much less than the cost of a top running LLM at Sunset. The costs for a driveline alone that I have heard for some of those guys is crazy, not to mention the tens of thousands for a competitive chassis.
How can the costs be so different?
-
I think the rules were quite the same till Derek went to the ACT rules and Kawartha never had a long distance race with more than 20 cars after that.
-
Half of them were LLM
-
Agreed slowel, Derek did island himself but from the get go he always maintained he thought it was the right direction to go. Obviously he was promoting his father-in-laws series but he knew that system worked, it was proven. And that is why he promoted it, not because of the family ties. Curley saw where LM rules were going and he decided to make a rule package to save maney and stick to it. As I said before the formula must be working down south and in Quebec. Good fields of cars and drivers who remain in the series for years if not longer. Even though the ACT deal didnt work as well as Derek thought it would, it was caused more by other promoters not buying in more than anything. I dont think we would be in this whole mess if Flamboro and Delaware had joined with Kawartha when they had the opportunity.
-
Agreed slowel, Derek did island himself but from the get go he always maintained he thought it was the right direction to go. Obviously he was promoting his father-in-laws series but he knew that system worked, it was proven. And that is why he promoted it, not because of the family ties. Curley saw where LM rules were going and he decided to make a rule package to save maney and stick to it. As I said before the formula must be working down south and in Quebec. Good fields of cars and drivers who remain in the series for years if not longer. Even though the ACT deal didnt work as well as Derek thought it would, it was caused more by other promoters not buying in more than anything. I dont think we would be in this whole mess if Flamboro and Delaware had joined with Kawartha when they had the opportunity.
I think most of us agree in hind sight slapdown. we were actually the first to build a next gen lm for delly after cascar left. We wanted to build an ACT car and suggested exactly what you are saying. unfortunately delaware didnt agree for whatever reason.....
this however doesnt help to fix the present situation, we cant go back in time all we can do is move forward. Its more important now than ever for the tracks to work together or there will be only a few left in the very near future. limiteds and pros need to find a common ground imo.... if its 602's in the pros and wide fives and coil over limiteds or a combination of the two with penalties. people much smarter than me need to figure that out, but thats what needs to be done.
Too many classes, not enough racers..... end of story.
Those with the power to change it, have to..... stop blaming your competing track, or the racers, or the economy, sit down and hash this shit out!!!!
-
Totally agree. Can't keep going backwards on who is at fault and for whatever reason. I know I am not as connected with the rules, etc as the drivers/owners are, but it seems the Delaware has a pretty good package of rules right now. The tires are an issue, but when the suppliers are also track sponsors, I don't know how you get around that. With all the talk about engines, didn't the car that won by half a lap last Friday night run a 602 crate? It isn't exactly a new car either. So a 602 crate has won, a 604 crate has won and doesn't Jamie Cox run a built engine? Wasn't Jon Urlins car from last year an ACT and he was very competitive?
-
I was really hoping that ACT would be the universal lm rules for the province but other than Kawartha (and Capital City?), no one wanted to jump on the bandwagon. And then Kawartha had to come up with a rule book the size of the bible to draw in cars for the weekly shows.
I saw two really excellent ACT tour races at Kawartha over the years-one opposite the sprint car nationals at Ohsweken (and thank gawd for that heated grandstand) and another which was run on, I think, a Saturday afternoon, which featured some incredible battles between Brad Leighton and Laperle but played in front of about 500 folks. I'm pretty sure that there were no llm's mixed into the field and the timing was all wrong. Got to see my hero Robbie Crouch (now a successful realtor in Burlington Vt.) one last time.
Right now a lot of promoters subscribe to the island mentality as they don't like the idea of their cars running elsewhere (for fear of teams withholding their labours wanting a better purse, etc.). I hope some kind of meeting is held over the winter between all the promoters. Maybe we can get them to go to rehab to get away from their reliance on tire suppliers for point funds
-
Jay, I agree it is not helping the problem placing blame. Reading my post it does seem that way but I was rather trying to show the success that ACT has had and that it still is the best answer that is out there now. Present day LM and LLM rules are far from cost effective. Curleys rules package is and that, coupled with the fact that it is a proven formula, is why I still feel that it is the most viable option. How we can get there is another story. I do feel that the only way to get there is to get the drivers from all of the tracks to call a meeting and invite the track owners ( all of them, not a choice few ), not the other way around. You dictate what goes on, not the promoters. Because honestly, you provide his show and without you guys he has nothing. You will need to have some leadership, a focused plan, show the promoters a way to impliment that plan and show them the positives that it will bring to each speedway. To be honest, the drivers will be the ones that will absorb the majority, if not all of the costs, but I know certain owners are stuck in their island mentality.Also, everyone talks about a five year plan in business. You would know better than I, but would it be possible to impliment this 5 year plan getting to ACT rules. Every year chip away at a couple of things. Depending on the class and the track either take some things away or give them to the drivers. It seems to be simple but I am sure to get all to agree and get it to happen would not be so simple. Wish it was but until something happens similar to this, the LM scene in Ontario will continue to deteriorate.
-
I think part of the issue there is that we're in year 1 of what they've been telling everyone is a 3 year rules freeze.
I don't doubt for a moment that the LM ranks at Delly will swell again somewhat. They aren't doing too badly right now. There's simply a void left behind by the guys who didn't come back because their engines aren't legal any more. Unfortunately, most of those guys were our shining stars.
I'm sure that looking at the ACT rule set wouldn't be a bad thing. ACT is well established and has been around a long time. We could do a lot worse. Anything is possible down the road.
However right now, as much as we don't want to admit it, their (management's) focus is on generating income now. I would imagine that making things so that we can have huge LM fields again, for once or twice a year events, is pretty low on the list of priorities at the moment.
It sucks...don't get me wrong. I live for the days we can once again see 20 guys in the non-qualifiers race, and a 32 car feature field. But they need to be making money on a good solid regular show before they start worrying about that.
Another transition period is not what they need right now, IMO.
-
I here what you are saying shadow as far as some tracks like Delly don't need a transition period right now.
But remember cost savings for racers and rule parody would not only increase the counts for specials but allso for the refular Friday nights.
-
Just spitballing ideas here...for the sake of argument. What is keeping our cars from being ACT legal anyway?
Could it be done or would everyone have to rebuild what they have?
Again...just for the sake of argument ;)
-
Just spitballing ideas here...for the sake of argument. What is keeping our cars from being ACT legal anyway?
Could it be done or would everyone have to rebuild what they have?
Again...just for the sake of argument ;)
A few things off the top of my head:
- no offset chassis in ACT (not sure how many at Delaware)
- no two speed transmissions (again, not sure how many at Delaware)
- spec Koni shocks and no bump stops (this would affect pretty much everyone)
- ACT crate engine is smaller, but you could phase that in
- ACT runs a pretty narrow tread width vs a standard late model...not sure how you would get there
-
didn't Jon Urlin run an ACT car quite successfully the last few years at Delaware?
-
I am not sure if it met all the ACT rules but I know it was run in ACT as well. Only him or his crew could tell you that. Whenever we ran our ACT car at the GC 300 we had a great handling car compared to most but got beat by 2 car lengths down the straights.
Its more cost saving that makes ACT rules the better option. I won't get into what rule combinations are compatible. We need to get the costs down first.
-
Three year rules freeze??? ???
I seem to remember a nearly 3 "decades" long rules freeze with Cascar.
In those years there weren't 10 things that changed on those cars and none of those changes were of any real significance.
3 years just seems like a short time. Some guys will still be trying to get up to speed with the other teams then it'll change again. You can't get ahead that way,,,,,,well maybe a chassis builder or parts supplier can. ::)
-
it's a lot better than the 3 hour rule freeze we were dealing with previously....
-
Two weeks to go, no format released yet. Looking forward to hearing what they have in mind, rumor has its going to be good?? Time will tell I guess?
-
yeah im getting curious as well... saw on the webcam early today Urlin had his late model out so theres one invader for you guys! I cant imagine what they can really do with the format though :/
-
I overheard another fan last night saying they'd heard some kind of big announcement was happening on Monday.
-
Ok I guess it wasn't that big.
-
heat races and a consi?? they must know something we dont about the number of visitors expected... if you're short on cars if doesnt make sense to me to run meaningless races and risk tearing up some cars.
-
I didn't really see much of an enticement for visiting cars, that's for sure. The heats and consi are a head scratcher. Looks a little like they've thrown up their hands as far as getting out of towners in there.
You know, Tony Novotny is a hall of fame promoter. It staggers me that they wouldn't get him on as a bloody consultant or something. It just seems that the current crew have just resigned themselves to 16 car fields for a big show as a sign of the times.
I know they have a pile of other concerns, and I know they're doing the best they can with what they have. But seeing my favorite race....indeed the one real tradition we have here, get short shrift, makes my heart hurt.
This is NOT the race that Earl Ross, Junior, Beiderman, Leslie etc won. It just isn't.
Great Canadian Race my ass.
Sorry. Had to be said. :( (Fortunately this place is so dead that no one will read it anyway.)
-
I have to agree with the posts here on this direction the new group is taking. It is like they have given up, certainly on this event. I am a total avid supporter of Delaware, but I sure don't get this at all. What's with the heat and consi races? As far as I can tell, (hopefully I'm wrong) there will barely be enough cars for a good heat race. I am so disappointed in what they done this year, the format, the Saturday afternoon show, the reduced purse. I do not agree we need anything from Tony though. I guess I am not as thrilled with his past glory as a lot of people are. After last Friday nites show, I was so thrilled with what they had put on. This certainly brought the enthusiasm back down.
-
I’ll share some thoughts on this since I know this is an important event for many and one we would all, I hope, like to see succeed:
I didn't really see much of an enticement for visiting cars, that's for sure. The heats and consi are a head scratcher. Looks a little like they've thrown up their hands as far as getting out of towners in there.
Not completely, but to an extent this has become the reality of the moment. The track’s attempts in the 2013 season to draw out of town cars has been met with limited success (this is true of the Super Stock Invitationals as well). The only inter-track success the track has had this season was with the Open-Ontario 4 Cyls. Inter-track cooperation is simply not a thing at this time: it is an attitude that needs to be changed. We do not have a magic bullet for this, it is a wide-spread issue.
As for the heat races & consolation: they should be considered part of the qualifying process to set the field for the event. Some of the most exciting GCRs in recent memory have had qualifying events.
It just seems that the current crew have just resigned themselves to 16 car fields for a big show as a sign of the times.
In the case of the GCR, we do fully expect to have enough drivers to put on a solid event. The intent-to-compete registrations will give us a better idea over the coming days as to who we can expect.
I am betting this message board is capable of assembling an unofficial list that would see between 20-26 competitors. Remember: the maximum field size for the event is considered to be 28 competitors.
I know they have a pile of other concerns, and I know they're doing the best they can with what they have. But seeing my favorite race....indeed the one real tradition we have here, get short shrift, makes my heart hurt.
The GCR is a challenging event for the track right now. A sense of tradition is, in fact, the key element that is carrying it forward at this time. Stand-alone Late Model events (with no celebrity drivers) seem to have difficulty drawing massive crowds of casual spectators. How do we fix this?
Part of it is this: it is my belief is that our drivers should be celebrities in their own right - - but getting that message out there is an ongoing challenge. I’ll ask two quick questions:
a) How many drivers have you seen send a tweet or social media post out about this event?
b) How many drivers even make use of social media to promote their racing? (Any division)
If you look at those two questions and ask “what does that have to do with anything”, you’re already missing the point. Fans today and the new fans of the future are grabbing onto these things and almost all of us are not ready to meet them (including myself). I’ll work with any driver to help get these things going - - but the best teachers are already out there. Check how J.R. Fitzpatrick, D.J. Kennington, Jeff Showler, McNicol Motorsports, Darrell Lake, Ryan Litt, DeMelo motorsports and more promote themselves. Photos of working on the cars, photos of loading the cars for events, photos of their fans, posts about how the night is going. Interacting with the fans directly, even during the week! How are we reaching new fans, how are we engaging the fans we have?
This does not pass promotion of events and racing away from the tracks but it is a recognition that it’s 2013 and not 1985. The way new fans want to interact with us will be different than how fans did it 30 years ago. Who will run in this event? In all likelihood, even with the intent to compete system, we won’t know until the day of the race. Visiting drivers have been keeping their plans closer and closer to their chest and as a result have become more and more difficult to promote. It makes promotion of events like this particularly tough, especially when some fans make their decision to attend based on the entry list.
The Friday night event for the past few years with the weekly divisions, King of the Hill, combined cheaper admission price has outdrawn the more expensive premium event that is the GCR. The strongest events for the GCR in terms of participation were held under the Weekend Warrior Series which was ultimately rejected by most Ontario speedways.
At any rate: there’s something going on in the wider world when a King of the Hill event is capable of outdrawing the GCR. It keeps me up at night.
This is NOT the race that Earl Ross, Junior, Beiderman, Leslie etc won. It just isn't.
On a technical, historical level… It is.
I have to agree with the posts here on this direction the new group is taking. It is like they have given up, certainly on this event. I am a total avid supporter of Delaware, but I sure don't get this at all.
I wouldn’t argue that this format represents “giving up” on the event: giving up on the event would be cancelling it.
The event is, in fact, the Labour Day Great Canadian Race: the 200 lap annual event for drivers in the track’s top division. It’s a big deal to us at the track - - on a personal level, it’s a big deal to me, for a variety of reasons. The weight of history is heavy on it and there’s more to it than car-count. I should not need to remind the message board that seasons where the car count swelled to exceptional levels were at times terrible events that seemed to resemble a Chaos Car event more than the prestigious Late Model event we aspire to.
At a certain point we have to ask ourselves whether we still believe in the magic of stock car racing. Whatever happens on August 31 writes another page in the history of the event. The event may not be paying $10,000 to win: but it’s still the Great Canadian Race and as I said before, the weight of history is heavy on it. Whoever wins it will become a part of it.
-John
-
Say what u want but running it on Saturday when every track in Ontario is running is just plain outright brutal.
-
Really they only have one other track to pull cars from - being Flamboro. Bring the rules closer together and you have another batch of tracks to pull cars from.
This of course will take the co-operation of the track promoters, and all the car owners.
-
The state of LM racing in ON is that its on life support. That just makes me bitter. Sorry about yesterdays rant but....jeez.
At least you could openly invite the Flamboro guys...and tell them to bring their American Racer tires with them. I saw no such concessions in that release.
....And maybe it starts with a frank discussion on why that will or will not happen.
-
Holy whine fest Batman!! I respect most guys on here, and when I see you all in real life... know most of you are great guys. At least throw a positive note in this year, that the track DID put the race together. Is it perfect?? No, but dammit give it a shot to repair itself for next year. For some food for thought, I found the ACT rules, and took a look. Really, Delaware ISN'T that far off of these. They have some differences in engines, tires, and that's it. It's no secret the track makes money on exclusive tires. Deny it, but you do. My father was in track promotions when I was younger, and I know all the drills. I was glued to him from the time I was allowed to go. So, find a way to make this viable for your supplier, OTHER racers (out of towners), bring up the payouts, Homogenize the rules with a few tracks next year... and get bloody racing. I know there are loads of old late models lying around that could be reasonably competitive, if the rules were streamlined. Going backwards may be the only way to stop this crap.
http://www.acttour.com/rules/13LMRules2413.pdf (http://www.acttour.com/rules/13LMRules2413.pdf)
End rant.
-
The simple issue with ACT is this. Tires. McColl Sells Hoosier tires. ACT uses Goodyear tires. Why do you think only one division at Delaware went on the 8" recaps this season..... Because Mike has a tonne of stock left in the 7". Its all about money baby.
-
A movement towards Act based rules for the late models would be a good way to go - maybe not 100% to the letter of their book, but at least moving in that direction. I think its something that could be middle ground, or a starting point that could get the late models and limited late models back together.
They have some good stuff in there to try to keep the costs down.
Just need someone to grab the bull by the horns and get it going.
-
I agree with the tire problem, there just has to be a way around it.
-
I agree with the tire problem, there just has to be a way around it.
There is. Just relax the damn rule if/when you get serious about trying to attract out of town cars.
Of course, this is all parlor conversation. Allowing Amercan Racers for a day wouldn't actually cause a stampede of Flamboro drivers at the gate anyway. I think most of us know that. Those guys don't like tracks where you have to go fast. Too scary. ;)
-
Those guys don't like tracks where you have to go fast. Too scary. ;)
Cue punchline drum roll LOL
-
John.. You do a great job promoting your track... I feel your area is still suffering from the major auto factories closing in Chatham. St Thomas Mary's and The Cat..the costs of the LM cars have gone up since they are down to 2625 pounds.. My thought why it is a sat afternoon race/// so the fans can attend it and still make it to the show sunday at mosport...as far as flamboro cars go they have a points race sat night at home....i did hear there will be an out of town super stock there Friday night..let's see how it runs against the tube chassis cars.. ::)
-
Did Delaware even look at other tracks schedules before they made theirs???? Why would you run a SS invitational on the same night as Ohsweken has it's invitational 50 lapper for Thunder Stocks. ????
-
Not that it makes any difference, but did Ohsweken check Delaware's schedule before they did their invitational?
Who knows who was first and I highly doubt there are any crossover cars between the 2 tracks.
-
Point taken. :)
-
So some good news out of the track tonight with regards to the Labor Day 200. Seems McRoberts has come on board with a challenge somewhat reminiscent of something they tried at Flamboro last week.
Basically, they've offered up a challenge to the leader at lap 100. If he will submit to restarting at the back of the field for the last half of the race, there's a $5000 (five thousand) dollar bonus in it if he wins. That's pretty cool, and gives the race winner a chance at a $10,000 payout. ($3000 to win, $1000 for leading lap 100, $1000 bonus if the halfway leader wins, and $5000 if you win the "challenge" = 10,000 clams. Not bad :) )
And it sounds like they've been in negotiation with Peterborough to bring a number of their drivers down for the race. Here's hoping it happens.
I'm starting to get a little excited about the race. I always do for this one, and this year is no different. I'm not backpedalling and I don't take back anything I've posted up thread...but I don't want it to sound like I don't support the event either. I absolutely do...its still our showcase LM event, and I'll be there with bells on.
-
I can never make this race as I am usually out of town :-[
-
I managed to finagle the day off. Its a little easier for me to do when its on a sunday but I made it work. My main agent wasn't happy but oh well.
I just hope next weekend is as nice as this one. If they end up having to running on Sunday ill have to give it a miss.
-
sounds like they might be letting some super stock guys try and run this year? If this is true why not lucas oil cars too.... maybe they are?? this should be interesting
-
sounds like they might be letting some super stock guys try and run this year? If this is true why not lucas oil cars too.... maybe they are?? this should be interesting
I hope this isn't true.
-
aren't the Peterboro guys limited lates or do they run a homogenized class there with Kawartha folding?
-
Mike 32, Peterborough runs the mixed class with ACT cars adding weight. I think McHattie, Kimball Wallace and Mercer, last nights runaway winner, are the only ones to run there though. BTW, hadn't been to Pete in quite a few years other than AC and was quite glad I went. 15 slm, 15 LLM, 17 Thunder, 20 or so ministock, 6 trucks and a healthy four fun field.
-
The way i see it our ss are close to a limited late with exception to coil overs on rear. Also guys from pete comming down would be good since there season is done till ac
Sent from my GT-S7560M using Tapatalk 2
-
I got no issue if some of the faster SS cars want to try and make the show. Personally I'd love to see what happens when Showler pulls some of his usual moves around Kennedy and some of those guys. See how long before he's in the fence hard :)
-
I got no issue if some of the faster SS cars want to try and make the show. Personally I'd love to see what happens when Showler pulls some of his usual moves around Kennedy and some of those guys. See how long before he's in the fence hard :)
Then why call it a Late Model race? May as well include bone stocks and chaos cars too. :-\
-
So are the trucks allowed also ??
-
This has been done before with no issue. Not sure what the problem is with it.
-
late models only!!! just heard from Mr March who spoke to the track directly.
-
late models only!!! just heard from Mr March who spoke to the track directly.
As Martha Stewart would say, "It's a good thing"......
-
Lol....first we don't have enough cars...then we don't want any extra traffic. This place cracks me up sometimes. ;D
-
uh oh, now hearing if they can get under 20.5 seconds they are welcome to the party.... John will be along soon to set the record str8 im sure
-
This could get interesting Jay...."anything" under 20.5 seconds is good to go??!!! Hmmm lol This could be a great show after all!!
-
they have to do something i guess Jamie??
-
I dont know where I sit on this one, as I was allowed to run my LOSC car for this race a couple years ago. Ran approx 20.3 sec laps. I was faster than a half dozen visiting LM's, but broke an axle at lap 50 or so. I dont think super stocks should run it.
-
Well i think you are opening a big can of worms though Jay where does it stop could be the next question i understand what they are trying to do with car count and yes this did happen a few years back but if your lapping a guy every 3-4 laps probably not a good thing either jmo.
-
Heck we might as well try a truck too then
-
they definitely have to enforce a minimum speed rule..... if they do that it should be fine imo
-
I dont know where I sit on this one, as I was allowed to run my LOSC car for this race a couple years ago. Ran approx 20.3 sec laps. I was faster than a half dozen visiting LM's, but broke an axle at lap 50 or so. I dont think super stocks should run it.
What is the 77 then SS or LOSC ?
-
yup agreed Jay
-
This could get interesting Jay...."anything" under 20.5 seconds is good to go??!!! Hmmm lol This could be a great show after all!!
LOL. I don't think Jesse will be allowed to run his SLM.
-
Why?? lol
-
Opening it up will help counts. Hopefully these guys can get them within a reasonable speed. I hope it works for them, and the fans get a show. No one wants to watch anyone tangle up machinery from too slow a car... but at least give them a chance to show IF they can match speed. Isn't there already a few 602's running in LM? And then hopefully it's just setup from there. It's a ton of work for one race though. I may have to stop by tonights practice to see if anyone's trying it.
-
77 is a SS built car.
-
late models only!!! just heard from Mr March who spoke to the track directly.
30 mins after post I get another call from the track OSS cars are good to go as long as there under 20.5 spoke with Paul h ,just to clear things up ...as we all know the racin rumour mill
Can get out all crazy so I called to get it from the brass at delly
-
I guess it'd likely be a tall order to have SS cars in anyway, considering they need to race the night before. And not just any old race...but a POINTS race. (he said sarcastically)
I still don't see the problem...but what the hey...everyone needs something to get their undies in a bunch about. Just another day at the races. ;)
-
Ernie, my LOSC car was a former super series car, never a SS.
-
My point was that the 77 changes the setup of his SS to run LOSC that was all. I'm not saying anything is wrong with it.
-
Good article in the free press, was even the banner headline on the website for a while, and good pr on free fm this morning. Cowboy did a good job on air.
-
My point was that the 77 changes the setup of his SS to run LOSC that was all. I'm not saying anything is wrong with it.
I think the above doesn't know you're talking about Darrel Lake's car.