Great Canadian 200

[Racer43]

the Great Canadian 200 might not be that if we don't find a way to get some more cars out. 16 cars for 200 laps might be a bit of a snore.... I don't know what the answer is, but I'm thinking this aint going to be pretty if more don't show up. Is the speedway staff actively approaching the other LM track teams? I remember when Wilcox was running the show he was down at Flamboro a lot talking to the teams there. What about the Limited guys, are we enticing them to come? Jesse won last night with a 602 crate and basically a limited chassis. I think they have the rules as such now a limited can do very well at Delaware in a longer race. However running it on saturday afternoon kind of kills all hope of any visitors coming from up north?? hmmm, scratching my head about this scheduling this year. Just throwing this out there... any thoughts???

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[Ryan Fan]

Last nights late model race was very boring to be honest. Spread out with a few battles but nothing much. A typical friday night 40 lapper... great you guys make it a great show. You are right though. 16 cars for 200 laps... absolute snore fest.

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[ernie]

Considering we have just lost two tracks this should be easier but........
Delaware, Flamboro, Sunset, Barrie, Pete, Varney, Sauble. Seven tracks which have the majority of racers in this Province. Get together and have one big race for each class (LM/LLM and SS/Thunder) at each track. LM and SS don't have to be the same dates so each track can still run a show minus one class. Don't compete with each other for those dates. Count points for each track as competitors finish against each other from their own tracks or show up points. Come up with a minimum number of cars that need to show from each track and share the gate between tracks. Distribute the race purse by track competitors and overall (this will eliminate the LM/LLM differences). Home track rules. One Tech from each track travels with their cars.

Just some thoughts. Don't kill me ;-)

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[MARCH]

teams just don't travel like used to it costs way to much (ex)varney paid 80 dollars tow 1200 win at there 50 lapper that's a 3 hour drive id love to go but 80 bucks ??small teams wont show up if I was to go to to a race 3 hrs away 6 tires 980 dollars  plus race fuel 200,pit fee 125,food 125,travel gas 200,plus any damage =around 1600 for one night .....and there is the reason no one travels,so count the peter guys out ,count the sunset guys ,only maybe the flammy guys might come down,(but they didn't for the 75 lapper last night changing set ups is a lot of work also )16 cars inst much maybe cut it back 150?100?i wish I knew how to get the cars back ......

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[mike32]

I think I had mentioned to Jay previously that the ludicrous starting time (and date for that matter) because the track seems afraid that they might lose a few fans to the Nascar truck race at Mosport, 200 miles away, shows that the track has little faith in it's top division or fans.
And the major problem we have, is that the various tracks have become beholden (is that a word) to the tire suppliers for their points funds and naturally, it's a different supplier & brand at every track. It maintains the Island mentality. (Just like this new V-8 stock class seems to be unique only to Delly)
 Secondly, last night's 75 lap yawner paid $1250 to win. How many teams came remotely close to making expenses?. The 75 lapper at Flammy (Grisdale race) did have 21 cars with Jamie Cox being the only Delly car and it paid $3000 to win. There's another 20 late models that potentially could run at Delly.
 It all comes down to money. Purses seem stuck at at 1980's level and the excuses run rampant as to why. Fans are getting bored with a less than great product and stay home.
 IMO we have to either open up the rules to home track tires, or get rid of the single tire supplier and make it open to all mfgs. but with a common durometer reading. Even if it means a reduction in the points fund, most teams are paying for the points fund anyways with inflated tire prices

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[Shadowracer]

I actually think we're seeing the end of a shift in LM racing that started years ago. The reality, I fear, is that the climate is just not there anymore to entice teams to travel to large events. LM has become, in this area, a weekly level division and nothing more. I doubt there's many Late Models being built or bought now with the idea of travelling track to track.

There's novels to be written on the why's, and the fixes for this, but the bottom line is that any track hosting a big LM event has to basically give OTHER track owners a reason to make allowances that would make it easier for their talent to travel....something beyond "well it'd just be really nice to have a 30 car field like in the old days"

But so far I can't think of any, beyond doing some sort of home and home series with another track...sort of like what we tried with Flammy a couple years back. (awesome idea, and pretty decent series...but no money behind it. None that was going to the drivers anyway.)

What I think would be a definite shot in the arm for larger LM shows around here would be another Ontario travelling series, sort of like ALSTAR was. It would need a big league sponsor, an old school promoter, and a solid core of 'franchise" drivers...but it could be done. (It never fails to astound me that both SLM and Sportsman Cup both have good solid travelling series that get decent car turnouts...and regular LM's got nothing.)

Anyway, I know in the end of the Wilcox/Scherba era they were looking at hooking up with a US based travelling series, and possibly making the Labor Day race a stop on that series schedule, but nothing ever came of it.

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[Shadowracer]

Agree with Mike the tire thing is stupid.

Disagree that prize money is the issue. It might be for a few guys...but not the majority.

Maybe the answer is to try a straight up "run what ya brung" tire rule for the Labor Day race, say with a 10 inch max.

If tracks are going to be serious about trying to entice other drivers, they need to fix this. Problem is they don't really want to get serious about it. And neither do the tire sponsors.

(and don't quote me because I'm not sure - but don't be surprised if past management at Delly signed into something that current management can't get out of at the moment.)



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[Just_A_Fan]

A little off topic perhaps, but relating to money; there was a $400 bonus on Friday night's 75 lapper for the "top registered LM from a visiting track", plus a minimum payout of $250.

There wasn't a single driver there from another track . . .

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[raceguy]

great posts guys.  I to have wondered (and have expressed to track management), why in the world would they ever schedule this race on a Saturday afternoon start time or on a Saturday at all?  This will kill any hopes of any visitors coming from other tracks.  But on that note,  I also think that drivers / car owners don't travel like they used to.  For whatever reason, they are not like the teams of years ago.  I'm sure it involves costs, purses, travelling, family times ,etc that all come into play. Drivers years ago would race 2 or 3 times a week. I don't think drivers now want to do that, maybe spending more time with the family.  I know many a driver from years ago, that the family, house, etc came second after racing. I don't believe that happens now and that's good. It doesn't help us fans though. lol.   
I don't think that the travelling series is the answer.  The OSCAAR super late models have a great group of drivers and cars. Interesting, though, it seems the same guys win all the time. I walked out on their show a Delaware last year before it was finished, because it was a terrible show. It doesn't work all the time!  The Sportsman Series is okay. The car counts are not solid though as mentioned. How many cars were at Varney this year for their show and Delaware had a decent showing of 21 cars, but 4 of those cars were Delaware super stock regulars.

It's not only tracks up here that are having trouble. I just read that the Toledo Super Late model Gold Cup series started only 14 cars for their 100 lapper this past Friday night. I believe they pay $2500 to win for their 100 lappers. If any one can remember back, Toledo was "THE" place for their super late model shows.
I wish I knew the answer to all this, because I'm worried some more tracks may not be around in the coming years.
Back to original topic!  I agree with Jay 100%. I really think  the current planning and schedule for the GC200 is heading for a disaster as far as car count and also possible spectators.  Lets not forget the last Saturday GC200 show a couple years ago!!!!

I really think the current Management at Delaware has made some great strides in bringing rules in line and trying to make the track operate on "break even" level, which had to be done to keep it going.
I think they are great business men, I just hope they have the great passion for racing that is needed.

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[burbiotch]

I can't speak for any current Flamboro Late Model teams, but I think the fact that Flamboro currently has 5 late model specials on the schedule (all which pay better than Delaware specials) is going to deter teams from having any desire to travel. Once you try to run a full Flamboro weekly schedule, which is about 12 races, then tack on those high paying specials, that's a pretty full season. And you're running at a track where you know the setup and have a better shot at winning.

Back five or six years ago when we had a Flamboro Late Model, we said every season that we were going to come to Delaware for Canada Day or the Labor Day 200, but the season wears on you, and you get closer to those dates, and it becomes a lot easier to come up with reasons to not go...like extra cost for an inventory of 8 inch tires, or needing to get everyone off work early if its a friday, or the simple fact that the odds of having a legitimate shot to win or run top five against the locals is slim to nil.

Now we have two Flamboro Thunder Cars, and the same logic applies to the Super Stock invitationals at Delaware...and the payout isn't real great either. We could use our own tires, but you're going to burn up a set over 70 laps, which is over 500 bucks in cost.

I do think that a home-to-home series like Sunset and Sauble tried this year could be good...if there was decent money behind it. Shut one track down for the weekend for their regular LM and TC/SS and bring in something else while the home-to-home runs the other facility. If you put show up points and some extra cash on the line, I think you would see at least 20 cars in each class.

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[mike32]

the Great Cdn used to be a show that was run on a day when other paved tracks were not, bringing in a lot of spectators from other tracks for their once a year visit. Moving it to a Saturday when a majority of the local short tracks are running is puzzling.
  Oscaar too is a puzzle-after having 23 and 20 cars at their last two Sunset shows, 13 late models (and 12 mods) showed up last night at Sauble. The fan just doesn't know what to expect any more.
  ps-Jason Shaw and his son were at Ohsweken Friday spectating rather than spectating/participating at Delaware. Same with Jeff and Cayden Lapcevich. Maybe that speaks volumes............

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[MARCH]

the Great Cdn used to be a show that was run on a day when other paved tracks were not, bringing in a lot of spectators from other tracks for their once a year visit. Moving it to a Saturday when a majority of the local short tracks are running is puzzling.
  Oscaar too is a puzzle-after having 23 and 20 cars at their last two Sunset shows, 13 late models (and 12 mods) showed up last night at Sauble. The fan just doesn't know what to expect any more.
  ps-Jason Shaw and his son were at Ohsweken Friday spectating rather than spectating/participating at Delaware. Same with Jeff and Cayden Lapcevich. Maybe that speaks volumes............

it may speak volumes or maybe not,its tough to leave your back yard and kick butt guys like doerr,jesse,cox, to name a few are hard to beat ,and vice versa its tough to go flammy and beat those guys in there back yard ,so that may be a reason those guys don't travel,and they don't see many delly guys at there place,so maybe they just wanted to watch some  dirt racing and spend some time with there boys outside the pits IMO

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[mike32]

it just seems that rather than finding an alternate place to race when their home track is off, they'd rather become spectators

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[tigeraid]

And yet as we sit here and talk of car count struggles, Ohsweken, Merritville and Humberstone have upwards of 50 cars per class, eliminations and last chance races every night, and (for the most part) packed grand stands.  And if you listen to the roll call on the pace laps, they are from EVERYWHERE--in Sprint cars they come from all over the northeast, including several states.  Even in the Thunder cars,

Why not look to the dirt tracks for answers?  WHAT are they doing differently?  And sorry I don't buy the "dirt racing's just better" argument that I'm sure an Ohsweken troll is about to respond with.  Racing is racing, if it's close and exciting it doesn't matter what surface it's on.

So what, about the racing package, is better at the dirt tracks?  We know they have identical rules packages for for every single touring class (LMs, LLMs, Modifieds, Midgets, 360 Sprints, 305 Sprints, 410 Sprints, etc etc)...  That most certainly helps draw in teams from elsewhere.  We also know they alternate nights, which helps too.

But it must go further... Are the tires much longer lasting, and therefore cheaper, in the lower classes?  There's inherently less wrecking and therefore less repair/rebuild to be done in general.  The 4 cylinder classes are GIGANTIC, so they must have something in the rules that makes it more worthwhile to race in that class than elsewhere...

What else is there?  I can't imagine the payouts are much better, at least not for the small classes.  Do they offer haul money?

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[JAMR2]

The cost of racing on dirt is a lot less. We can still run tires that we bought in 2010. If you don't get in a wreck or blow up the week to week costs are much lower. The first year we ran mini stock at Ohsweken the biggest weekly cost was fuel for the tow rig! Watch the videos from Ohsweken, in every class you will see 3 and 4 wide in the turns and battles from the lead all the way back to the tail enders. That's one of the things I love about dirt if your filling the line on the bottom I can go to the top or middle or where ever I find some grip and make a run at you, no bump and run needed just drive by you. There is always someone to battle with, be it for the lead or the last transfer spot from the consi. Also watch how the show goes off at the "BigO" very little dead time for the fans once hot laps start the program runs like a clock. Checkered falls you exit at turn 2 as the next race pulls on the track at turn 3 and gets the 1 to go flag, next time by it's green flag. 10:30 loaded and on the way home some nights. Sorry my post wondered a little (gotta get off midnights) but I'm sure you get the idea.

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