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CanadianRacingOnline.com Section => Race Setups => Topic started by: CanadianRacingOnline on February 24, 2009, 01:01:49 PM
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OK I will ask the first question.
I used to play NASCAR 2003 and I wasn't that good and had more fun turnking the car around and hitting the field head on. Someone once said you have to setup the cars to the track as you would a real race car.
I knew cars do different setups for different tracks as I have been watching NASCAR for many years.
How much setup do drivers on here do to their cars each week. Do drivers here keep notes on what worked and what didn't.
Thanks
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Yep. ;D
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We keep a log book, from the weather to tire pressures and tire temp after each practice, heats and features. It works for us, also if we have any issues we can go back and check what worked for us.
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we do this as well as what we change with the motor/carb/gear, etc. from week to week.
Corner weights are apparently very important in TC and up so this year we will be watching our weight percentages closely as well.
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I,ve allways called it my "Play Book" sometimes at a differant track we may need a differant rate of front spring, or tire pressures,or even wedge, Its all in my play book. I swear that there are gremlins in the shop, changing things while we sleep. I use the Play book weekly. And its closely guarded. I wrench on three pure stocks, three play books.
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I too believe in shop gremlins, The car is perfect when you load it a week later everything is outta whack! ???
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;) the nice thing about barriespeedway is if your fast there the setup only needs to be tweeked for other places ;D i dont change much unless it is way out of wack.
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This is great information as I thought I would be hearing I don't keep a log of what happen when and where and what the weather was like that day.
OK for those that go to many different tracks. Is it harder for you to get the car setup to run well at another track you don't regularly run or is a few minor adjustments at the track?
Charger says if you are setup for Barrie Speedway you only need minor tweets to run well at other tracks.
As discussed in many topics here. You hear there is different tires at different tracks. Now from what little I know the tire is a big part of the handling of the car so if you changed a different tire brand to run another track wouldn't you need a whole new setup for that tire at that track?
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we call it the bible, everthing from tire temp and pressures to humidity on that day to length of race, only thing missing is color of underwear because it is always the same pair,cleaned of course, maybe.
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Thayne if you have a set of scales at the shop check your weights their, especially if you are going to run Sunset. The scales their are outta whack.
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Thanks Scott, we haven't bought a set yet, keeping our eyes out for a bit of a deal. 1000 bux will buy a lot of tires! haha...
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Your right Thayne, but a $1000 may save a few tires too.
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This is true scott, we will have to see. I think the tracks should sell their scales every 2 years and buy a new set, just so they stay accurate. racers would jump at the chance to buy a set of scales cheaper as well. Me and rick walt were talking about this at Varney. If I could find a set for 500 bux I would jump on it.
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In the trade I work in, instrumentation is varied and of different quality. It all has one thing in common. The instruments need scheduled maintenance and calibration. I have worked on lots of different types of scales and all of them have given many years of good service. There are companies out there that calibrate and repair scales as their only business and it is surprisingly inexpensive (unless your scales are shot from lack of maintenance of course).
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This is true scott, we will have to see. I think the tracks should sell their scales every 2 years and buy a new set, just so they stay accurate. racers would jump at the chance to buy a set of scales cheaper as well. Me and rick walt were talking about this at Varney. If I could find a set for 500 bux I would jump on it.
There is also a trick I saw on a how to show that I am sure some racers on here know. I think it was on figuring out how to see how much your vehicle weighed roughly without scales.
This has to be done on a flat surface such as a garage floor so you can get an accurate measurement.
Get a piece of white board or construction paper, jack the car up and place a piece of paper under each wheel and let the car back down. Trace the contact patch on the paper. Take a tire pressure reading on each tire and write it on the appropriate piece of paper. Jack the car up again to get the paper out and calculate the areas in square inches. Multiply by the appropriate tire pressure in PSI and presto. You get a rough calculation of weight on each corner and add them up for total weight.
Example: Numbers are only for math purposes. I have no idea what a contact patch would be with a given tire at a given pressure.
A tire contact patch measures 6" x 6" = 36" sq
The tire pressure is 32 psi
36 X 32 = 1152 lbs
Again this is very rough but if the measurements are done consistently it can give you a rough weight distribution percentage. This is very rough and would work better with less tread of course. The more tread you have the more of the tire is not in contact with the ground so your actual contact area would be only where you touch the floor. For percentage purposes I don't think that area matters as long as you do all four tires the same way. Slicks work best of course since the whole contact area is touching the ground.
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wow,that is one decent peice of wisdom.
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Man my head is hurting. A little question and all this great infomation and I have learned a lot today. Maybe I should ask more questions as you really see the passion you guys and gals have for racing.
Thanks
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Thanks Ernie, I am gonna give that a try this weekend.
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Thanks Ernie, I am gonna give that a try this weekend.
Actually if your tires have some dust on them you can probably get a more accurate area measurement. Remember the old saying you get what you pay for. I don't know what you have to pay for paper and a pencil LOLÂ :D
It is handy to know from previous knowledge what your car weighs so that you can have confidence in the method the first time you do it. I did this with my pickup when I had a slide in camper. I just did it with a tape measure and got a very rough estimate of the area calculation then did the math. I can't remember exactly but I think I was about 10 to 15% high with this method when I checked at the local scrap yard scales.
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ill try it on the west and slm cars later this month and verify with my scales and see how close it is.
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most drivers at local short tracks have a schedule of maintenance for their car, and do keep chassis setup records, if you don't your car wont be competitive and you will burn up a set of tires in no time. or you can be like a driver i know from peterborough who pays someone $250 per week to do his setup and maintenance and thinks that 2 or 4 new tires per week is the answer. i think i will save my money, do my own work on my car and feel better knowing i am learning something while still having fun
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plus safer in my mind. i want to be the one to check my brakes for the next weeks races.concrete is hard.
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I heard that grain scales will work too if you don't have the cash to buy electronic ones.
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if you ever come across a set of mail scales they work well plusthe car is in the air already to work on. only downside is they take up alot of room.
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  The most important thing you have to remember about scales, and I say this as an Electrician not as a racer, is maintenance and calibration. This is especially true if you are using 4 different instruments as you would when trying to get your weight distribution right as those on here would be trying to do. All four should be calibrated to the same standard every time you use them. Scales can be very finicky. Bumping and dirt and temperature can affect load sensors. Portable scales are especially prone to going out of calibration due to the nature of the use. If one of your scales is off 10 or 20% you won't find out until you run off into turn one the first time. Grain and mail scales, especially the older ones, use a system of weights and cables which can vary from instrument to instrument which makes it hard to get them to jive with each other. Electronic scales are by far the easiest to maintain and calibrate and get any two or four given instruments to read the same.
  When you purchase any instrumentation they should come with items for calibrating the instrument and instructions that have to be followed in order to ensure many years of use and proper readings.
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I should add that 'calibration' is only something you do if you know a given instrument is out of whack. I should use the term 'check' with a common item of a known weight. Then 'calibrate' if the scale is off.
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Thanks Ernie, I am gonna give that a try this weekend.
Did you try this out Scott?
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Not yet Ernie, I havent touched the car in a few weeks. But I will.
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Uh oh, somebody's leaving it for the last minute rush..
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Actually the car was mint when we pulled the motor in November, no much has to be done to it. Every year is a last minute rush.lol.
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the 5 most important elements to the performance of a circle track race car
1 driver
2 geometry
3 setup
4 tires
5 drivetrain
most teams fail miserably in the first 2! ussually because of denial and lack of knowledge. everybody knows all about #3, 4, 5, and/or blame everyone else for cheating in 5, 4, or 3!
#1 is where 78% of racers get beat. #2 is where 98% of all handling problems come from. 3,4 and 5 don't matter in the least until you take care of 1 and 2.
how many times have you ever got your car "perfect"? neutral, very easy to drive, but were still off the pace? so you blamed someone elses fat engine, or your weak engine? neutral doesn't mean fast, it just means you found a way to equal front and rear grip, and being neutral, and slow, ussually points to geometry.
"or you can be like a driver i know from peterborough who pays someone $250 per week to do his setup and maintenance and thinks that 2 or 4 new tires per week is the answer."
that is a smart man! knows his limitations, and has corrected a possible weak area in his team. $250 is very cheap for a knowledgeable man. my routine maintenance schedule, for one car, is about an 8 hour day. i might be able to do a maintenance/setup program in 10 hours! at $250, thats a $25/hr shop rate, how many of you make $25/hr at your job, let alone charging a shop rate as low as $25/hr.
and you don't think tires are the answer? does the track allow new tires? if so, you should all have 4! or get the rule changed!
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I'm not no racing guru but the big problem here is the cost 250.00. It's a lot of money to most teams when they get nothing for racing.
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I'm not no racing guru but the big problem here is the cost 250.00. It's a lot of money to most teams when they get nothing for racing.
evan i think the point is its better to spend the $$$ than struggle and miss it yourself.
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the 5 most important elements to the performance of a circle track race car
1 driver
2 geometry
3 setup
4 tires
5 drivetrain
most teams fail miserably in the first 2! ussually because of denial and lack of knowledge. everybody knows all about #3, 4, 5, and/or blame everyone else for cheating in 5, 4, or 3!
#1 is where 78% of racers get beat. #2 is where 98% of all handling problems come from. 3,4 and 5 don't matter in the least until you take care of 1 and 2.
how many times have you ever got your car "perfect"? neutral, very easy to drive, but were still off the pace? so you blamed someone elses fat engine, or your weak engine? neutral doesn't mean fast, it just means you found a way to equal front and rear grip, and being neutral, and slow, ussually points to geometry.
"or you can be like a driver i know from peterborough who pays someone $250 per week to do his setup and maintenance and thinks that 2 or 4 new tires per week is the answer."
that is a smart man! knows his limitations, and has corrected a possible weak area in his team. $250 is very cheap for a knowledgeable man. my routine maintenance schedule, for one car, is about an 8 hour day. i might be able to do a maintenance/setup program in 10 hours! at $250, thats a $25/hr shop rate, how many of you make $25/hr at your job, let alone charging a shop rate as low as $25/hr.
and you don't think tires are the answer? does the track allow new tires? if so, you should all have 4! or get the rule changed!
2 and 3 should be the same thing,they are in my set ups!!
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I agree with most of what Boas51 is saying. However i am curious as to how this mystery man from Pete runs. If hes not winning a bunch where is he lacking? Is it his driving, geometry or the guy charging him the $250 every week?
The last sentence about the four tires... if your track or budget doesn't allow for four new boots every week wont this will make the importance of the top three even greater.
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evan,
every race event, at every track, somebody breaks something that is a direct result of negligance, lack of knowledge, and/or lack of workethic/time, that many times costs way more than $250.
larue,
then why don't you say #4 and 5 are the same as 2 and 3? and why didn't you ask me why "body" isn't on my list?
geometry is related to setup, but not the same. as i stated it is MORE important than setup, and you should be keeping track of it.
43
thanks.
as i said if the track allows 4 new tires, you should have 4 new tires, if you can't afford 4 new tires, that's no other teams fault, don't look down on them for trying to race! yes, if you are competing against better tires, you better be on your game if you wanna be up front. but, simply put, if the stickers are on their game, you won't compete! but, as evan aluded to, we race for fun, not trophies
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In your setup I think 1 is the problem. LOL
2 and 3 should be the same thing,they are in my set ups!!
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evan,
every race event, at every track, somebody breaks something that is a direct result of negligance, lack of knowledge, and/or lack of workethic/time, that many times costs way more than $250.
larue,
then why don't you say #4 and 5 are the same as 2 and 3? and why didn't you ask me why "body" isn't on my list?
geometry is related to setup, but not the same. as i stated it is MORE important than setup, and you should be keeping track of it.
43
thanks.
as i said if the track allows 4 new tires, you should have 4 new tires, if you can't afford 4 new tires, that's no other teams fault, don't look down on them for trying to race! yes, if you are competing against better tires, you better be on your game if you wanna be up front. but, simply put, if the stickers are on their game, you won't compete! but, as evan aluded to, we race for fun, not trophies
part of setting up a car,is making sure your roll centre is where you think it should be,and adjust it from there.If you dont think its not part of the set up,or call it whatever you want,so it be..i was adding my opinion,since this is a talk forum,,,why would i ask any questions,concerning your statement??You trying to give me a hard time??Like tom cook puts its....Iam down with that....lmfao
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In your setup I think 1 is the problem. LOL
2 and 3 should be the same thing,they are in my set ups!!
Your right there,i over drive the car,all the time...its the only way to find that theshold. ;D ;D
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larue, don't get all big headed thinking i'm picking on you, i'm an @$$ to everybody! lmao
the reason i stress geometry, is because every part of your setup will be dictated by your geometry. you can not set anything in your car, without first knowing geometry, and everybody seems to want to start at #3, or possibly even #5.
for example, where do you set you toe and why?
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Okay,what do you call set up then??When you do a "set up",what do you do to the car??Iam just asking,to clarifty things...
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larry you may want to listen to this guy, he knows his stuff and backed it up last year on the track in the west series. here is the difference to me. geometry is where you mount and how you hard mount control arms etc. set up is the adjustments one can make without getting the plasma cutter and re welding. one is a base line the other is a series of adjustments from the baseline.
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Well,everyone has their own take on things,myself i treat geometry as things like roll centers,frt and rear.Which can be adjusted very easy on late model style cars,thunder cars are just harder to do.
I would never attempt to set up a car,with out knowing where the frt and rear roll centers are,so i call this part of the set up.
I also include rear stagger as part of my set up,which boas51 has listed as #4 on his list.
But,we are all different.But i fully agreed with boas51 with the driver being the #1 thing to consider,and all to many times people complain about someone beating them and they are cheating,when the other guy drives 2 car lenghts into the corner further then them,and getting back on the throttle a car lenght sooner...
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larry you may want to listen to this guy, he knows his stuff and backed it up last year on the track in the west series.
Well if he is from the west series he must really know his stuff since everyone knows how stout those guys are when they come east ¦;::)
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not the same guys, they would equate to the oss. you may remove foot from your mouth now.
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not the same guys, they would equate to the oss. you may remove foot from your mouth now.
I know exactly what the series is there # 13 . I just meant you guys out west are a little behind the curve that's all . Who is the hot chassis builder out there now Conestoga ?
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Okay,what do you call set up then??When you do a "set up",what do you do to the car??Iam just asking,to clarifty things..."
i start at #2 (after evaluating #1, lmao)
check for proper suspension travel without binds, check for worn/damaged parts, check moment center, alignment, bump, ackerman, rear trailing arm and track bar locations/lengths.
any thing attached to the car, that swings through an arc, is part of geometry, including everything attached to the spindle, and differential.
i consider setup, springs, sway bar, shocks, crossweight, alignment, track bar........but it all overlaps.
for the most part, as long said, i consider anything you would readily adjust at the track part of setup.
eight,
i predict the ncats pole in toon will be 15 seconds, with over 1/2 the field slower than 15.5, west record is 14.98, "cascar" sportsman car with 8" tire.
i am available to help any ncats team that needs help at toon. i am even willing to rent my shop offer my services for the week between edmonton and stoon.
long, i just cut and pasted a mount on a R&D chassis!
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give thompson one practice session and he will be in the 14's.
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i know what you did devon and the resources used, 8 ball have not figured out who you are yet, on second thought it does not matter.
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Okay,what do you call set up then??When you do a "set up",what do you do to the car??Iam just asking,to clarifty things..."
i start at #2 (after evaluating #1, lmao)
check for proper suspension travel without binds, check for worn/damaged parts, check moment center, alignment, bump, ackerman, rear trailing arm and track bar locations/lengths.
any thing attached to the car, that swings through an arc, is part of geometry, including everything attached to the spindle, and differential.
i consider setup, springs, sway bar, shocks, crossweight, alignment, track bar........but it all overlaps.
for the most part, as long said, i consider anything you would readily adjust at the track part of setup.
eight,
i predict the ncats pole in toon will be 15 seconds, with over 1/2 the field slower than 15.5, west record is 14.98, "cascar" sportsman car with 8" tire.
i am available to help any ncats team that needs help at toon. i am even willing to rent my shop offer my services for the week between edmonton and stoon.
long, i just cut and pasted a mount on a R&D chassis!
Hey Boas51
Sorry for taking so long to reply,Just to clarify with you,iam not starting some pissing match with you,okay!Everyone has there own way of setting up their cars,i guess when you stated about geometry and set up,as 2 different things,i myself consider this as the same,But i do see where ur coming from now.
If iam setting up a car,that i've never worked on before,the first thing i do is plot the roll centres,to see where its at,then string the car,to see if its st8.Would love to have one of those lazer aligner,christmas list or when i win the lottery lol,then continue from there with the same items you mentioned.
You know yourself,that the fastest and consistent set up for 1 driver,will not work for everyone,due to your number 1 on your list,which btw,i completly agree.
If you got someone in the car,that cant tell the difference between tight and loose,sure makes your job,a little tougher,some racers will never have the ability to tell you what the car is doing.
Damm,take a look at nascar,you would think that with all the money and resources these guys have,it comes race day,and guess what,there car is not working....one of those things,that make you go hmmmmm. ;D ;D ;D
Ps.How are things out west??
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hey,
things are good out here, been busy, don't think i've been here since april 8th.
anyway, i take care of all the angles and lengths of any thing that controls the diff and spindle first and foremost.
moment/roll center is one of them, but i am not as concerned with the location of the r/c as i am with the camber curves. the only logical reason for being concerned about the location of the r/c is because it sets your camber curves.
read june article on racingparts.ca.
i previously asked where people set there toe out and why, and haven't got a response yet. it will be very reliant on bumpsteer and ackerman, which over 50% of the teams i work with didn't know.
there are too many things included in geometry to leave it as part of setup. and, it has to be right before any setup will work.
i am beginning to think a good setup will be fast with anybody that can wheel a car. i have run 2 cars at the front with the same setup, with 3 different drivers. gonna be 4 cars and 5 drivers come saturday! lol, i hope.
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Hey guys,
I've not been logging on much these days, been way too busy with other things. Had a few minutes of downtime and surfing CRO. I've read through this read and saw some interesting ideas as to what's important in setups and what affects they have and the question of what's important to consider in race car preparation & setup.
Race cars are not rocket science. They simply will perform within given capabilities and rules, nothing more and nothing less. That same principle applies to the race car driver. A driver's ability to understand a cars abilities and translate those paramenters either improves or handicaps any changes made to a car's setup.
Already noted, I agree that preparation, logs and data collection are the prime components to improving a cars ability to perform. Tools are also a critical component to the success of both car and driver. Of all the tools to buy with very long term benefits two of them are tied, one being scales, the other being a caster / camber gauge. These are not cheap as has been pointed out, but by far, are the most valuable.
I read the posts about scales and other options to figure out weight. Race car scales are very valuable for other reasons, such as determining front / rear weight, left to right weight percentage and cross weight percentages based on spring loads at all four corners. This applies to FWD and RWD cars. Some chassis run better dewedged compared to others. Scales offer the ability to determine what each corners spring load are at your given cars weight, what impacts shims or load bolt pressure will have on setup.
I find them very valuable for determining fuel load rates for 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4 and full capacities and helps me determine what kind of weight distrubution I need to prepare for, given the type of race tracks we run at.
For those that run in a class where caster and camber have very limited amounts of adjustment allowed, the tool is still one of the most important to have in your toolbox. Accuracy of a given setup is what will help give the car a consistent feel and thus should translate into better confidence in the car which of course then finally translates into how the driver can push the car to its limits and should improve the success of that driver as well.
I read with some interest how some gave input as to what are the most important things for a team consider. I agree that all of them raised are important. But the top three are not really (in my opinion) the critical to success. What is important is notes, more notes and constant learning curves that racing has. Knowledge transfer from other sources such as competitors, factory support, etc, are all important. You can have a great race car driver but a crap car and nothing will improve if they don't understand each other. Vice versa, you can have a great car but if the driver lacks knowledge of what the car really has, it will probably affect the success of the driver and car.
I agree that roll center (or sometimes called Moment Center) and other chassis tuning abilities (bump steer, caster, camber, toe) are vital and critical. They are valuable setup components that oftent do not interchange with other race tracks. What works for one type of track perhaps will not work at another due to size, degree of banking, etc..
What I find is the most important thing to have at the top of the list however is the willingness to learn (driver, crew, setup crew,etc). That is fundementally the most important part. Everyone that's been involved in racing knows, it is not about just going out and buying a car and going as fast as it is capable of. It's figuring out how to compete with 10, 15, 30 or more other teams that are doing as much, more or less than you are willing to do.
Take our season this year. It's been horrific. We've chased motor problems, fuel issues, ignition system failures for most of the first half of the season. And then we finally got power, now the setup went to hell and a hand basket. After 3 setup configuration changes, we are finally on the right track with the #81 car. It's almost perfect. A few more tweaks and it should be a top contender everytime out. But we have to always keep our eyes wide open to ideas and setup problems that can and do arise. We chased our setup problems with tonnes of ideas and setup configurations. Nothing was working initially until we did a complete reset on the car. Last weekend we finally proved that we were overlooking some very simple setup things and identified those issues - and the results showed that we could finally run with the other teams.
What we learned on the #81 race car setup, we transferred to the #21 (which has had different engine problems right off the bat - but we hope to have those figured out right away). Right out of the box the car's setup was in the ball park, better than its ever had before. The learning curve and adjustments to any car have to be documented like everyone else has said here. Notes and records are a big part of any teams future success.
A few comments on some of the posts.
Camber - if the rules allow it, for sure, Camber is a big plus if the modifications can be allowed in your class of racing. Caster is also critical for race tracks that have very tight corners like Peterborough and Mosport. If you can dial those in, read tire wear and tire temps and log the info, that team will have a better opportunity to be successful compared to other teams that do not make logs and notes on race setups.
Caster is a big deal, don't ignore it.
The bigger the tire and longer the wheelbase of the car is, the tighter the accuracy of your toe settings need to be.
Check and recheck C/C/T before each race, it's a pain in the butt and takes time -but definitely a valueable investment in time if you want run up front.
Roll Center.
In a lot of cars you simply can't affect R/C as much as you want to try based on the cars class, design, and rules. The biggest influence on roll center is the Center of Gravity (C.G.) forces working based on R/C of the car. In my class, it's a sure way to either make a car fast or wreck into a wall..........Circle Track Magazine has some great past artices posted on their website on race car PREP and setup. Well worth reading!
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Ryan,
Sometimes it is what it is. You can have the worst or best equipment in the world and still have a terrible season. We run with what we got and do our best. If it takes a while, so be it. I never said we have done a good job. We do continue to learn and try. Some cars do run headers red hot. Mine were very hold and thin from years of use. We had carb issues - even though new. We chased and chased to be sure.
Other seasons, I certainly haven't done well, learned a lot about tracks and how challenging it is. When you run a car on your own, it's always a challenge to keep pace with all the steps up the latter. This year is no different, but its still going upwards, even if it's one step up and two steps back down sometimes. Sometimes it can take 4 to 5 years to get half decent, let alone near the top. Other occassions it can be better.
If you're learning quicker than my team is, good for you. Based on your attitude though, I don't really care what you think though.
Doug
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Ryan,
You have no idea of what you are talking about. My carbs ARE brand new, 4 of them in fact. I bought new distributors (3 of them), wires (4 sets), etc.etc, throughout the past 3 seasons. What we found - defective carbs, bad wires (right out of bloody box), bad lifters (new), so when stuff happens and you decide to make an opinion, I would suggest you do your homework first, which clearly you have not. Luck is apart of the game, and I certainly haven't had any lateley, but it will come.
Nothing is perfect, never will be. I have NEVER ever said that Fords are better than Chevrolet's. Find one post that states that I have ever said that. There are good and bad points to all engines and have always said so. Ford has longer connecting rod when directly compared, but that does not mean that a Chevrolet (or Dodge) doesn't have advantages too - such as the intake architecture. I have said I prefer to RUN a Ford. I've run AMC, Chrysler, Chev and Ford in the past.
I'm very proud of how Kim Mitchell has run the #81 and how we have presevered through bad, the ugly and some good. If it takes yet another season of learning, then that's what we'll do. If my #21 is sidelines due to funds, so be it, we'll keep trying. Tony Stewart's team blew up or wrecked 4 cars at Daytona this year and where is he now in the chase? I've blown up two motors during test sessions already and I'm STILL getting the car back together for the rest of the season. Other teams would have thrown in the towel by now. Other teams have burnt up engines too, and most come back and still try to make a go of it. I've raced my fair share and hope to race many more seasons. Some have been great, others disaster and that cycle will continue FOREVER and not just to my team, but many others. If you can be perfect out of the box and thus that's the only advice anyone should ever listen to, hey by all means go for it.
I stand by my advice on setup. To those that think that it's weak from a "weak" team, so be it. Oh and by the way, when have I ever said I am out there to win a championship? You ask any driver in my class that knows me and my peers will tell you what our goals are. I've posted them here before too. I'd like to see you run a two car race team and do it on your own with limited dollars and still try to make it every weekend. It's a humbling experience. By the way, what class do you run in?
Doug
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You don't know what you're talking about, that much is clear. Some of the best in the business have looked at our carbs at the track, one was bad, the others were good. We did find the problems - both separate issues. We in fact were never lean by the carb. You obviously haven't seen the #81 run lately.
As for the two motors, we had a bad batch of connecting rods. You sure do have a one track mind about carburators!
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Whatever you say Mr. Day...... you are the man to listen too...
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Welcome to mr. ross evans,cant race very good,but sure can talk!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Welcome to mr. ross evans,cant race very good,but sure can talk!!! ;D ;D ;D
�In a lot of ways I feel sorry for him,(Larry)� Ross said. �I hate that he lives in such an angry place. To be so mad about something so small � it must be miserable to live like that. That�s just not the way I live my life. I�m very blessed to have great parents that raised me to be a very different person. I�m in a great position there and I�m very lucky that way that I was raised differently.�
Ok ryan / ross / whoever. Don't use one of my posts to further your evil fued :-\ ::)
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Ok ryan / ross / whoever. Don't use one of my posts to further your evil fued :-\ ::)
Sorry Ernie, it just made such good fuel for it, I couldn't resist. ::)
To tell you the truth I had a refence to you and Larue when I first posted it but then thought better of it. It's all fun and games until someone's mother gets involved ;)
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To tell you the truth I had a refence to you and Larue when I first posted it but then thought better of it. It's all fun and games until someone's mother gets involved ;)
You and Larry's mother? :-\ I thought I saw her in the back window of that shot of your van at Michigan
;D
OK, I give. Uncle. I'm out :-X
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WOW! GREAT COMMENTS. I LIKE THE WAX PAPER SCALES. I WILL TRY THIS AND COMPARE TO MY SCALES.
ANSWER TO THE QUESTION:
MY TEAM RACES MANY TRACKS IN A SEASON AND EVERY TRACK REQUIRES DIFFERENT CAMBER ADJUSTMENTS AMONG OTHER THINGS. TIRE TEMPS ARE CRITICAL. IF YOUR CAR IS SQUEALING THE TIRES IN THE CORNER, YOU NEED TO FIX IT. FIRST DETERMINE WHERE IT IS COMING FROM FRONT OR REAR.
FRONT? COULD BE AIR PRESSURE, SWAY BAR, CAMBER, TOE, ACKERMANN, OR BUMP STEER.
ASSUMING YOU START AROUND 20PSI IN THE LEFT FRONT AND 32PSI IN THE RIGHT FRONT.
START BY MARKING OUTSIDE SIDEWALL WITH CHALK. DRAW A THICK LINE FROM YOUR HOOSIER OR GOODYEAR LETTERS ON THE SIDE WALL TO ABOUT ONE INCH INTO THE TREAD. RUN SOME LAPS AND SEE WHERE THE CHALK HAS WORN OFF BY THE TRACK.
SCENARIO 1; IF YOU SEE THE SIDEWALL HAS BEEN IN CONTACT WITH THE TRACK, YOU NEED MORE CAMBER OR MORE AIR. I WOULD LEAN TO MAKING THE CAMBER CHANGE
SCENARIO 2; IF YOU SEE THE CHALK IS STILL REMAINING ON THE TREAD, YOU NEED LESS CAMBER OR LESS AIR IN THAT TIRE. I WOULD LEAN TO CAMBER HERE AS WELL.
TO DETERMINE WEATHER AIR OR CAMBER IS OUT FOR FINE TUNING, YOU WILL NEED YOUR PYROMETER TO LOOK AT TIRE TEMPS.