CanadianRacingOnline.com
Canadian Oval / Road Racing => Canadian Tracks => Sunset Speedway => Topic started by: jarracing on October 04, 2006, 11:29:03 PM
-
I was just informed of this site and from which i can see it looks amazing.
I would like to comment on the 4 fun class at Sunset Speedway , First of all i think its a great way for people to race a car that is actually affordable. Even though most are rookies they do put on a good show , these cars start a field of approx. 30 cars in the feature , a track promoters dream . My hats off to you Glen !!!! Too bad for those who get suspended each and every night when there rubbing fenders !!!!! Rubbing is racing its in the big leagues we watch it on TV , these people are professionals , we are supposed to learn from them .....anyway for most that have never owned or raced a car before THEY should not be a participant at the track where they make decisions THAT EFFECT THE PEOPLE THAT PUT ON THE SHOW without knowing what exactly happened. My point being there would not be a hockey game without a referee . That referee would not be allowed to do his job without some form of training. The starter at Sunset needs some training that will help him get it right the first time. I have never in my life seen so many racers getting black flagged its ridiculous. Maybe he should use the black flag to start the race and then everyone can go home . Seems to me that when anytime you can watch 30 plus cars start a feature the fans are in for a REAL RACING TREAT. Way to go 4 fun drivers you all deserved better , you guys deserve a raise , maybe if your car goes with no scratches you get a 50.oo dollar bonus for being the most boring race car driver of the night .
On a last note of this i was told that rubbing is not racing at Sunset for the 4 fun class probably because its just for fun ....... hmmmm fun !!!!!!! Okay a guy or a lady have worked on there car all week , its now Saturday RACE DAY have to wash car , get car onto the trailer , get fuel for the car , load the truck with any parts and oh yes stop by the bank you need entrance money and oh yes money for food and drinks .... basically Saturday is a write off for doing most chores around the house and now the time has come to head off to the track for some fun !!!!!!!!! This is where the fun begins , you pull up to the pit gate sign your life away and pay your money , i figure 60.00 dollars on average after all you have some pit crew members or a boy/girlfriend , husband/wife I'm sure you get my drift , you go out for some practice have your heats and everything is going awesome , now you are in the 30 car field feature and whats this your being black flagged for rough driving but wait a minute i didn't do anything , the starter responds with too bad i have 3 other officials that saw you do it...... there is no damage to my car not even a scratch , the starter replies too bad PARK IT YOUR DONE FOR THE NIGHT ....... IS THIS WHAT YOU CALL FUN ....... no points , no pay out ....oops yeah pay out of your pocket.
Is there anyone out there that agrees with me on where is the fun in the 4 fun class ????????
-
you understand theres no contact allowed because the cars dont have full cages right?.....i mean....does this compute? during that entire run-on sentence did you stop and think WHY there would be no contact allowed?
You're putting 30+ rookie drivers on a track, with a rollover post and a seat back bar and you want to let them run into each other? The road runner division is there for a reason, if you want to be allowed to scrub more, drop a standard tranny and a cage in her and away you go. I wouldn't wanna take away from your busy job as an armchair starter by asking you to take a step back and THINK about what you're saying....but perhaps you should give it a try.
AND BTW, jar....err...ted....i like you man, you're a nice guy, but if you're defending who I think you're defending, you know and I know that he and his car were on another level, he was way faster and had way more experience than anyone else out there, I wish him the best of luck in road runner but it became increasingly obvious with each passing week that four fun wasnt the class for him
-
and....which one of the starters do you think has zero experience racing a stock car?
cause i dont think you can find a person involved at the track with the exceptions of corner three craig, brian watt and mark the photographer that hasnt been behind the wheel of a stock car
-
Well since Ive been able to race clean and not get black flagged as well as.....but on Sunday they were letting it go and as it was brought up in the other post.....the incident that resulted in getting 2 cars parked for the night....but they were being pretty easy with the flagging on Sunday. 4 drivers black flagged....1 was rough driving the other were completely moronic driver misconducts. Like I'll be honest....I've complained about the flagging in the past, but you gotta live with it.....if not go else where the grass is usually greener isn't it. So no matter what happens or where you go theres gonna be iffy calls...thats the life of racing always has always will.(Unless every local short track gets video replay). Just remember its an enrty level division maybe we can get lucky and stop drivers from comming down thats issue number one...serious racers.
-
...cause i dont think you can find a person involved at the track with the exceptions of corner three craig, brian watt and mark the photographer that hasnt been behind the wheel of a stock car
Just for the record, I have been behind the wheel of a few different types of race cars - I believe Craig has too, and Brian's been around racing for many years if he hasn't driven one. Rob and Ari for sure - they have both raced competitively. Either way all the track staff understands racing quite well so don't question that one Ted/Kyle.
But as Spencer says this division is supposed to be a starter class so people can get their feet wet for cheap and have some fun. There is no contact allowed (it's right in the rules folks). If you didn't like that part, you shoulda not signed up to that class because it obviously isn't for you.
This should be looked at another way Ted/Kyle (whichever you are) - would it be a lot of fun to you if you have never won a race ever, you are in the lead and looking good, and here comes that car who is 2 seconds faster than anyone else out there and he blows by you like you're standing still? I can name several drivers who had to experience that - now that wouldn't be much fun (other than if you are that 2-second-faster guy, hell it sure is fun for him).
Also you mention all the work involved in loading up and hauling out on Saturday morning. Here's a different perspective. What would you rather do:
- No contact: Park the thing on Saturday night and forget about it for 6 days. Maybe polish it, maybe hug it, fill your boots.
- Full contact: Spend 5 of the 6 nights off up until midnight, beat and bang all the dents out, replace the cut tires from the side-hits, replace the rad and hood from the brake check, replace the windshield and motor from the roll over (a brake check too), etc etc.
Dunno - the first one sounds like way more fun to me.
Mark
-
im speachless at that last part.
-
...cause i dont think you can find a person involved at the track with the exceptions of corner three craig, brian watt and mark the photographer that hasnt been behind the wheel of a stock car
Just for the record, I have been behind the wheel of a few different types of race cars - I believe Craig has too, and Brian's been around racing for many years if he hasn't driven one. Rob and Ari for sure - they have both raced competitively. Either way all the track staff understands racing quite well so don't question that one Ted/Kyle.
But as Spencer says this division is supposed to be a starter class so people can get their feet wet for cheap and have some fun. There is no contact allowed (it's right in the rules folks). If you didn't like that part, you shoulda not signed up to that class because it obviously isn't for you.
This should be looked at another way Ted/Kyle (whichever you are) - would it be a lot of fun to you if you have never won a race ever, you are in the lead and looking good, and here comes that car who is 2 seconds faster than anyone else out there and he blows by you like you're standing still? I can name several drivers who had to experience that - now that wouldn't be much fun (other than if you are that 2-second-faster guy, hell it sure is fun for him).
Also you mention all the work involved in loading up and hauling out on Saturday morning. Here's a different perspective. What would you rather do:
- No contact: Park the thing on Saturday night and forget about it for 6 days. Maybe polish it, maybe hug it, fill your boots.
- Full contact: Spend 5 of the 6 nights off up until midnight, beat and bang all the dents out, replace the cut tires from the side-hits, replace the rad and hood from the brake check, replace the windshield and motor from the roll over (a brake check too), etc etc.
Dunno - the first one sounds like way more fun to me.
Mark
WE HAVE A WINNER!
-
...cause i dont think you can find a person involved at the track with the exceptions of corner three craig, brian watt and mark the photographer that hasnt been behind the wheel of a stock car
Just for the record, I have been behind the wheel of a few different types of race cars - I believe Craig has too, and Brian's been around racing for many years if he hasn't driven one. Rob and Ari for sure - they have both raced competitively. Either way all the track staff understands racing quite well so don't question that one Ted/Kyle.
But as Spencer says this division is supposed to be a starter class so people can get their feet wet for cheap and have some fun. There is no contact allowed (it's right in the rules folks). If you didn't like that part, you shoulda not signed up to that class because it obviously isn't for you.
This should be looked at another way Ted/Kyle (whichever you are) - would it be a lot of fun to you if you have never won a race ever, you are in the lead and looking good, and here comes that car who is 2 seconds faster than anyone else out there and he blows by you like you're standing still? I can name several drivers who had to experience that - now that wouldn't be much fun (other than if you are that 2-second-faster guy, hell it sure is fun for him).
Also you mention all the work involved in loading up and hauling out on Saturday morning. Here's a different perspective. What would you rather do:
- No contact: Park the thing on Saturday night and forget about it for 6 days. Maybe polish it, maybe hug it, fill your boots.
- Full contact: Spend 5 of the 6 nights off up until midnight, beat and bang all the dents out, replace the cut tires from the side-hits, replace the rad and hood from the brake check, replace the windshield and motor from the roll over (a brake check too), etc etc.
Dunno - the first one sounds like way more fun to me.
Mark
my mistake
and go****n mark....just.....wow.....that was......wow
thumbs up
-
....okay now that i seem to have your attention perhaps i can fine tune what I'm trying to say. Ill try not to gibber here but if i do I'm sure you will all let me know ..... okay
I have some issues i need of my chest , i have pretty much heard from everyone that my son should not be in this class and you are all probably correct , but what bothers me is that my son has less seat time then the #9 driver and the other car that shall remain nameless . My son started in the 4 cyl division 2 years ago where he had a total of about 5 races and then his engine let go. Last year was about the same he decided to run the 4 fun class because that fit his racing budget. He ran a total of 3 races before the tranny left him in the pits for the rest of the season. This year as you can see he had appeared 9 times and really if not for the black flags he would have slipped into the top ten , that's quite an accomplishment and I'm proud of him either way as i am for some of the other drivers that run in this class as well. You see why is everyone saying that about my son , # 9 had a great season in the road runner class the year before and the year before that , but yet it goes unnoticed to everyone , if my son was not there to win some features just think of how many this man would of won ) i repeat where is the FUN. Now as far as the other nameless character goes he was a track champion the year before . He won just as many features , his problem was that he did not act like a champion too bad for him cause he could of repeated his title.
All 3 of these guys were friends a few years ago but what ever happened , happened!!!!!! That's there business however it did cause for some problems with my son meaning that the other 2 were related and we all no family stick together . ( or at least some families ) . Can you only imagine if my son had started the season at the same time as the other 2 . Drop me a line and tell me what you think might have happened if this was the case.
On a final note on this past invitational being the last night what in the hell is some rookie after he crosses the finish line 6 car lengths behind the # 91 car still racing around the track trying to catch up and sit on his bumper ( what was this going to prove , was he showing off or asking for trouble ) guess what he got trouble !!!!! Why was he so close on a yellow , what was he going to do ? All i can tell you is that my son stomped on his brakes and stopped , after all the race was over and really if there was no intent for driving up ones ass he could have stomped on his brake as well. This guy was being an instigator and had he not been there there would have been no hood crumpling. So can anyone answer me as to what this rookie was up to and why ? And really is he a rookie the way he trafficked up #91 bumper. Why should an everyday driver be parked for the night when a newcomer arrives with driver attitude , really the starter had a chance to make it right by trying to find out what was going on between these guys and then could have made a decision from there . Just because it was the last night , my son had some possible sponsors watching and the only answer they gave him was they do not want to spend there money at Sunset Speedway . This did more the hurt as i do like the track and all you guys that get paid for making decisions that effect those fellow racers.
If this class is to be fun take away the points and actually set up lineups for the year with each and every car that races there 4 fun. Racing will always be rubbin its the heavy damages that are not fun , and unnecessary black flags !!!!!!
And by the way Mark your comment on fun i,m not talking demolition derby here , there is always something to do on a race car to keep it safe.
Chow for now all
-
it was Rob Gibson in the 9 car, Rob ran the entire four fun season less about 4 weeks in 2004, and raced much of the 2005 in the road runner class
just so you know it wasnt a rookie
-
Although difficult to read Jarracing does make some good comments. I understand what you are saying although I get the feeling you have a agenda or situation that applies solely to you based on this past year of racing.
I raced in the 2004 season (along with 2nd place Rob Gibson) taking the championship in my first year of racing. I was green and it was a learning experience. That year we did have some "rubbin is racing" going on but our car count was so much lower (there has been up to 50 cars in the feature this year). The cars were not set up like they are now and I think it was a learning experience for the track too.
The cars now are so much more set up. I have read the rules and know them very well but OMG if you take a look at a few of the cars you can see this is no longer a rookie class. Some cars have more camber than 4 cylinders (stock?), these rookies know how to chip or swap a computer, for a cheap class I am surprised at how some guys have rebuilt/overbored motors and on and on.
I placed my son in this class at the age of 14 last year. He ran last year scratch and kept his nose clean. This year he gathered more courage/experience and when his car was up and running ran with the rest of the pack otherwise the car sat in the pits or putted at the back of the pack. This was a great way for him to get his feet wet and the no contact thing was a great safety net. We are actually thinking of moving my son up to 4 cylinder next year because we feel that it would be safer even with the Four Fun's having a no contact rule.
The comment was made that if this division is for fun then do away with the points I couldn't agree more. This sounds like a viable solution. Simply issue trophies to the top 10 each week along with cash payout and maybe some coupons to a local sponsors restaurant or maybe local parts store. Nothing drives you more nuts that following the points race.
As far as rookies go perhaps having a rule not allowing anybody to drop down from any class and any past champion has to move up. The fact is though that this is not our call. This is Glenn's track and it is layed out before us. If you like the class and want to race then do so otherwise move up. If you think you have something to add that would help bring it up to Glenn or at the annual meeting. This is like joining up for a non contact hockey league, still fun but without the risk of injury.
-
25 pounds added every time you win
-
Harold brings up some excellent points, and I hope Glenn adopts some of them next year. No points is a fantastic idea, but my guess is the opinion will be split on that one. Again, it is supposed to be "Four Fun" so not counting points would definitely take the pressure off, but there still are the "serious racers" who want to hoist the big one at the banquet. And yes, the cars are way more set-up than they were in the first year or two - it is unfortunate that it happens that way with new divisions. The idea of the Four Fun class was to be able to toss together a car in the garage and go racing (just like what you did), and that has not been the case this year. Someone like Ashley Romano has done her best and never had a chance to get a win again this year because of the over-prepared cars. She probably coulda gone toe to toe in the 2004 season and probably would have had more fun. And that "champ moves up" idea is great too. *thumbsup*
Ted, you keep saying "rubbin is racin". Personally, the best races I've seen this year are when talent and handling win the race, not bump-and-run. Examples: Rob Poole hooks up on the outside line and races side by side to take a position, or Paul Maltese can make that super sweet move low on a guy going in then out of the corner to take a position. Now THAT is great racing, not slamming a guy in the bumper or body slamming another guy to get him out of shape to get the position - that's just talentless and frankly lazy. There's also a matter of RESPECT for your fellow drivers, considering your unprovoked comments to me in the infield I know where you stand on that subject.
In the end, a good portion of the extra-fast cars were illegal anyway (read the rules - multi port Hondas are not allowed). Mark my words, there will be a big crackdown next year so choose your new ride carefully!
Mark
-
take a page out of the old exhibition hobby car racing book, and force the top 10 to move up....
-
Mark do you really know what rubbing is ? I'm for sure not talking about knocking fenders , spinning other cars , I'm talking about general racing , sometimes cars slide into one another for whatever reason , should this be a blag flag where it effected no one. Why should a driver be black flagged for someone elses mistake ? I watched and watched and shook my head not at only my son but the others that were also effected by it , its not right when there are so many reasons that cause them . Negligence should always be dealt with ,
And thanks on the no point system that was my idea !!!!!!!!!
I will also remind you that I would not be happy with my kid if he was slamming his way to the front . He also earned everyone of his features , he was pretty much the only driver to go 4 wide to get thru the traffic . Races are won in the corners not the front and back shoots.
-
take a page out of the old exhibition hobby car racing book, and force the top 10 to move up....
Good idea but that wouldn't work in this case as the 91 came in 14th, and it would force drivers like Tara Case, Jayson and Phil Dennis into Four Cylinders. Maybe it should be tied to finishing averages (not including DNFs).
Mark
-
Can any of you tell me how the car claim works ? If its what i think maybe dropping the car claim amount to $400.00 would help !!!! I mean after all nobody makes any money racing cars .
-
Taken from the rules on the Sunset Speedway website...
Claim Rule: Anyone can claim any car in this class for $700. Claimer to deposit $50 cash with Tech department before any race. Balance of cash to be paid within 5 minutes of race finish. If claimer changes his or her mind, $50 goes to claimee. If claimee refuses, $50 goes back to claimer, claimee car and driver are suspended for four race nights and they forfeit all money owed and all points to date.
-
take a page out of the old exhibition hobby car racing book, and force the top 10 to move up....
the thing about 'MAKING' people move up spencer, is that the four cylendar class, to COMPETE takes a lot more money than it does for the four fun. A championship 4 banger sells for around 5 large, not 500 bux. The fact is some people can't afford this type of cost, especiallyw he ur buying tires and because ur heads shaved u have to run 110 and things of that nature. The payouts for some people are not enough to make it work. I like the idea, but i think it will push a lot of people out of the sport.
-
Just a quick comment here , Mark why do you dislike my son so much, he has always been very proud to represent Sunset Speedway . Kyle is part of a family that has supported the speedway since the new ownership !!!! Anyway you show your true colors right on the website. You talk about the last feature for the four fun's and talk about the first , second , forth and fifth place cars , hmmmm what happened to the 3rd place car oh yes geesh it was that #91 car. Don't forget that if all those racers choose for you not to take there picture you wouldn't have a job there. !!!!! Maybe in the future you can act professionally and not get so twisted about racing that you should not have any control over. :lol:
-
Ted, I pose the same question to you as it was YOUR actions on Sunday that started this. If I am "just a photographer" as you and your boys say, why was it necessary to shout expletives at me when Kyle was being black flagged? I could understand it if you thought I was an official, but since you guys don't feel I am one then why lash out? Nothing adds up Ted.
I have no "hatred" for your son. Honestly, I believe he has talent. But his earned black flags through the course of the season should speak for themselves and you have no right to turn that anger about that towards me. Talk to an "official".
Mark
-
the thing about 'MAKING' people move up spencer, is that the four cylendar class, to COMPETE takes a lot more money than it does for the four fun. A championship 4 banger sells for around 5 large, not 500 bux. The fact is some people can't afford this type of cost, especiallyw he ur buying tires and because ur heads shaved u have to run 110 and things of that nature. The payouts for some people are not enough to make it work. I like the idea, but i think it will push a lot of people out of the sport.
You raise a good point about the cost of a championship car. How did it get to this point so quickly? Why does it cost $5000 to have a championship car in what was designed to be an entry level class? I think that more control has to be placed on the lower class cars to ensure that they don't cost that much to put together a championship car.
-
i no i for sure would be done racing if i had to move up to the four cylinder divison. i would be able to throw a car together half-a** but it would only have a cage in it, no motor or suspension work as it is all way too techniccal for me.
-
take a page out of the old exhibition hobby car racing book, and force the top 10 to move up....
the thing about 'MAKING' people move up spencer, is that the four cylendar class, to COMPETE takes a lot more money than it does for the four fun. A championship 4 banger sells for around 5 large, not 500 bux. The fact is some people can't afford this type of cost, especiallyw he ur buying tires and because ur heads shaved u have to run 110 and things of that nature. The payouts for some people are not enough to make it work. I like the idea, but i think it will push a lot of people out of the sport.
hi thayne
-
Ted, I pose the same question to you as it was YOUR actions on Sunday that started this. If I am "just a photographer" as you and your boys say, why was it necessary to shout expletives at me when Kyle was being black flagged? I could understand it if you thought I was an official, but since you guys don't feel I am one then why lash out? Nothing adds up Ted.
I have no "hatred" for your son. Honestly, I believe he has talent. But his earned black flags through the course of the season should speak for themselves and you have no right to turn that anger about that towards me. Talk to an "official".
Mark
Sorry for that name calling Mark , just so happens you were first on sight . However it did come from that little comment i made to you about you not being happy in taking Kyles picture again..... seems to me you had the problem then and I'm sure ill never understand why , but that's okay now , you dealt the cards where they lay and may i remind you , that yes you were hear before me on this site and not once did i hide from anyone including you . And for any of you my son has not commented anything on this site. I did how ever get a call about what was posted on this site and really bashing the track or owner was for sure not appropriate. Just maybe next time you want to blame someone for something leave there name off , and further more I'm sure you read the other emails that were in fashion in defense for Kyle .... too bad you don't see it that way.
This is a comment towards the guy who said Honda's are not good race cars , well it doesn't matter much to me but if i had my choice of race car i for sure would rather drive a car that uses its hind gears to get around . The front wheel drive cars are much harder to drive ...... hats off to the front wheel drive runners , whether it be a Honda , Toyota or whatever.
Thanks to those who replied for Kyles defense its nice to see that i was not the only person seeing this stuff go on. And to all who may have or not noticed i was out of province and had a picture sent to me of a car that had flipped over, I'm thankful the driver was not hurt but the picture truly shows the bottom side of the car exposing the exhaust . The exhaust was not stock it was an actual funnel , it went from the exhaust manifolds collector and then funneled out to about a 6 inch exhaust ( is this legal ? ) Just wondering.
Great site though too bad the postings got out of hand !!!!!
-
Glad to see it has toned down. It makes us all look bad when we get into a fight amongst each other.
I know it sometimes happens when we all voice our opinions and they are not the same but we need to take a step back and ask ourselves is this what we want to be reading on the site.
Yes there are sites that encourage this and it just makes their site look bad.
Thanks for all the apology emails.
-
The Big 6 Inch chrome thing was just for show the stock pipe was in the middle. Collin told me the story one night, it was on there for that specific reason to get people riled up over it.
-
take a page out of the old exhibition hobby car racing book, and force the top 10 to move up....
the thing about 'MAKING' people move up spencer, is that the four cylendar class, to COMPETE takes a lot more money than it does for the four fun. A championship 4 banger sells for around 5 large, not 500 bux. The fact is some people can't afford this type of cost, especiallyw he ur buying tires and because ur heads shaved u have to run 110 and things of that nature. The payouts for some people are not enough to make it work. I like the idea, but i think it will push a lot of people out of the sport.
hi thayne
hey spence...haha....
just to point out, my motor this season was completely junk yard, head and all, and I ran new tires and things of the like. I cracked the top 20 i think 4 times...i spent about 2500 this year after buying the car and all expenses. It just isnt fun getting lapped numerous times. I got the had shaved for Pdot and they shaved the worng one, I still put it on but had terrible valve flap.
Anyways, next year my car will be championship caliber, but i agree, it is a shame it takes this kind of money to run up there. I hope to be one of the ones up 'there' this upcoming season, but I think maybe chanigng the four funs to pure stock and then having a 4 cylendar modified class wuld be beneficial to the sport. Car counts would go down, but i think the racing would be more competetive.
-
Glad to see it has toned down. It makes us all look bad when we get into a fight amongst each other.
I know it sometimes happens when we all voice our opinions and they are not the same but we need to take a step back and ask ourselves is this what we want to be reading on the site.
Yes there are sites that encourage this and it just makes their site look bad.
Thanks for all the apology emails.
Being a forum there will be disagreements. This si the most civilised argument i have ever seen on a forum and I admin three. There is nothing wrong in my opinion with what has gone on here after reading the posts. Heated debate is aweosme and it is what makes a forum interesting. Whatever is said should nto be taken to heart and is jsut ones opinion. There is no need to spout off at each other, but heated debates about cdrtain things such as the four funs rubbings is aweosme discussion.
-
"Being a forum there will be disagreements. This si the most civilised argument i have ever seen on a forum and I admin three. There is nothing wrong in my opinion with what has gone on here after reading the posts. Heated debate is aweosme and it is what makes a forum interesting. Whatever is said should nto be taken to heart and is jsut ones opinion. There is no need to spout off at each other, but heated debates about cdrtain things such as the four funs rubbings is aweosme discussion."
I agree, and there will always be different opinions, thats healthy. I have had to go through the posts and *** out some curse words. We encourage opinions, but this site is read by younger people too, so we don't want cursing and or bashing.
Greasemonkey.
-
Yes there will be disagreements but once they get out of hand and into name calling we will put a stop to it. Please keep it clean.
-
agreed....
-
Ok Mark . You talk about all the black flags that I have accumulated over the season. Most of the calls we controversal, meaning that NO BODY had seen it yet it takes place right infront of there eyes. For instance the #96 car is on the outside and turns into the right rear corner of my car, trying to what?? I don't think his intent was anything good, and was no accident. So I come around to the start finish line and I'm getting the black flag. Why? So I'm pulling off the track slowing down in the CAUTION LANE then I notice a flash of orange in the rear veiw mirror . Followed by the sound of crushing metal and turned to see the under side of the #96 car. What was this person thinking, it just so happens that it is the points champion from last year. He obviously knows this track well enough to know where the yellow line is. His excuse was that he did not see the black flag and was still racing. "Racing below the yellow ". I don't think that this could be much more clearer as to what happend and who caused it yet somehow I still got black flag for the night. Some how this is all my fault. If it is my fault I must be a pretty good driver to flip somebody while in front of them!!!!! This is the piont that my dad is trying to make "MARK"/"MARCISFAN". If I did some thing intentionally I would own up to it GLADLY! You say that you have no problem with me yet every time I see you it's written all over your face with an ugly scoul. I hope other people could see this then they would know your true side. Hopefully Glen will wake up and smell the coffee and see just how much you bring this track down "all by yourself". PS Spencer: thought you had way more class buddy, guess I was wrong.
PS Doherty: I wouldn't preach to the choir till you get a little higher.
-
yo man chill....if theres this many people seeing you do stuff than something must be going on. Seems like there is more than jsut one incident being talked about on here. I think you should chill out before you make too many enemies on here. And at the track...
-
yo man chill....if theres this many people seeing you do stuff than something must be going on. Seems like there is more than jsut one incident being talked about on here. I think you should chill out before you make too many enemies on here. And at the track...
Understandable, but he as well as Jarracing, are trying to make the point that they have tried the whole year to stay calm and let things blow over, then they retaliate and the track went hay wire over it and made a big deal.... There is only so much one can take before blowing up and all he did was brake check someone, at least he didn't smash into the back of someone so hard he flipped himself over on his roof...........Just something to consider......
-
o hey im all for it there...but here is not the place to settle personal squabbles
-
o hey im all for it there...but here is not the place to settle personal squabbles
True true, If Mark has an issue with Lethbridge, he should have taken the time to have a conversation with the Lethbridge's at the track, not on the site
-
Ok Mark . You talk about all the black flags that I have accumulated over the season. Most of the calls we controversal, meaning that NO BODY had seen it yet it takes place right infront of there eyes. For instance the #96 car is on the outside and turns into the right rear corner of my car, trying to what?? I don't think his intent was anything good, and was no accident. So I come around to the start finish line and I'm getting the black flag. Why? So I'm pulling off the track slowing down in the CAUTION LANE then I notice a flash of orange in the rear veiw mirror . Followed by the sound of crushing metal and turned to see the under side of the #96 car. What was this person thinking, it just so happens that it is the points champion from last year. He obviously knows this track well enough to know where the yellow line is. His excuse was that he did not see the black flag and was still racing. "Racing below the yellow ". I don't think that this could be much more clearer as to what happend and who caused it yet somehow I still got black flag for the night. Some how this is all my fault. If it is my fault I must be a pretty good driver to flip somebody while in front of them!!!!! This is the piont that my dad is trying to make "MARK"/"MARCISFAN". If I did some thing intentionally I would own up to it GLADLY! You say that you have no problem with me yet every time I see you it's written all over your face with an ugly scoul. I hope other people could see this then they would know your true side. Hopefully Glen will wake up and smell the coffee and see just how much you bring this track down "all by yourself". PS Spencer: thought you had way more class buddy, guess I was wrong.
PS Doherty: I wouldn't preach to the choir till you get a little higher.
1. If you are insinuating that I am the same person as Mark, for the record I am not. Ask Evan to check the IP address if you would like
2. If you think that Mark brings the track down "All by himself" you are sadly mistaken. Find me a website that is as good as Sunset. The updates are quick and quality. The photos are second to none. Just because you have a problem with him, that doesn't bring the track down. Actually, have we seen anyone outside of your crew that has issues? I don't beleive we have.
3. Kyle, I have been impressed with what I have seen of your racing. I thought there is some talent there, however I didn't realize that your car was illegal. I am curious to see how you do next year with a car that conforms to the rules. I personally hope you are just as successful, and am curious to see what happens.
-
I didn't realize that your car was illegal
The car is not illegal, he never got disqualified, just had to put weight in the car...... and you know, every website for racing does an awesome job at getting pictures and updating the information quickly.... The photographer at Barrie Speedway is amazing..... He doesn't necessarily post EVERY picture, but he will have some other options for pictures if you ask him....... As well, he has the option to get your picture done with the border around it with all the sponsors names in the border. All you have to give him is a weeks notice and I believe that will give you around 100 pics.... So Yes Sunset does a good job with pictures, but so does every other track.....
-
The best thing about Sunset's website is the prompt posting of results. He bests virtually every other Ontario track site in that regard and for that he deserves credit. Other sites equal or best him in other areas.
As far as track staff editorializing on message boards while identifying themselves as track staff, not kosher by half. It is a basic violation of journalistic integrity. If staffers of any track feel the need to post comments concerning events at their respective speedways they should either, at very least, use a non-identifying nic or open a blog. The only other option is to remain silent or risk destroying credibilty.
-
You took the words right out of my mouth dster , well spoken !!!!!! If only i had said that way back when the one guy started bad mouthing my son hmmmm i think i did that though.
And hey there 59 car i cant psell either , does anyone know what Jeff Gordon and Tom Cruise have in common ? They both couldn't read or write many years ago but hey that's okay .....we can like em or hate em. I'm sure you don't need a friend that is so much better then you!!!!!
-
And i almost forgot to say that yes Sunsets Speedway web site is of good character , its easy to understand . Nice job Mark !!!!
-
And hey there 59 car i cant psell either , does anyone know what Jeff Gordon and Tom Cruise have in common ? They both couldn't read or write many years ago but hey that's okay .....we can like em or hate em. I'm sure you don't need a friend that is so much better then you!!!!!
Thank you!! At least you have some maturity towards that!
-
that made no sense...but im glad people are starting to come around and be mature witht he whole situation..good on you all
-
that made no sense
We are talking about the issue some people have with spelling.... No one is perfect and Jarracing is saying that we should not look down on or make fun of those who cannot spell perfectly.... It's not nice or mature at all. Spencer doesn't know if this person has a disability or not, so it's just time to grow up. That's all.....
-
I worked at Sunset for many many years and I left because there were tooo many people wearing headsets and making calls. I had 20 years experience handicapping and scoring and was not able to make a call. Even if it happened right in front of me, yet some yahoo would wear a radio one night and think they knew it all. I can understand where the drivers are coming from. Don't get me wrong I loved the work but hated the politics. And no matter what track there is politics.
-
No_Lift_Lethbridge:
Hey its good to see that you have finally been able to speak your peice of mind. It is hard voice your opinion or issues especially at the end of a stressful night of racing whereas at least on this site we are able to hear both sides of the story. I had noticed before I had registered to this site a previous forum which was deleted and there was a number of people who recognized the uncalled for black flags that you accumulated over the course of the season in which was a result of the another drivers actions. It's too bad for someone such as yourself with the talent and passion for this sport to have someone who is far too competitive and at one time was your friend create so much stress and damage in one night. As i have noticed there was a comment that "however I didn't realize your car was illegal" well I am sure we should all be aware that tech would have found if your car was illegal or not and if the fact that specific cars were grandfathered in that class, that would be irrelavent as you have no control that the rules had change. If your car would have been too much of a problem I am sure you would have been notified and you wouldn't have run the car at all this year. Congradulations on your great season and well earned checkered flags. Hopefully Barrie Speedway will have the chance to see you run there next year.
*Stang*
-
we certainly would welcome it...lol...
-
we certainly would welcome it...lol...
What do you mean by that Barrie97ps?
-
PS Spencer: thought you had way more class buddy, guess I was wrong.
.
more class?!?! i gave you a compliment!!! the h***??
-
we certainly would welcome it...lol...
What do you mean by that Barrie97ps?
I mean i would welcome him to barrie...lol...what else could it mean
-
I mean i would welcome him to barrie...lol...what else could it mean
Well barrie97ps, with all the sarcasim and immature remarks by some of the users, not stating yourself, who seem to be enjoying cutting up Kyle Lethbridge I figured you would welcome him to the track by pulling a stunt a the track that could harm him. Please excuse me for thinking that but there are people who are going to like him and those who are going to dislike him and it seems that the ones who dislike him want to stuff the car in the wall. I am not implying this is what you are indicating but I don't know who you are and sometimes remarks can be taken the wrong way when just written.
-
well im happy to welcome LETHBRIDGE to barrie speedway. you all shoudlnt chirp to much though, he chose a fast car for a slow division. hes smart if you ask me, ya mabe a lil aggresive but its raicng were not out for a sunday drive.
EVERYONE GO RUN THE HIGHLINE BARRIE SPEEDWAY :D
-
well im happy to welcome LETHBRIDGE to barrie speedway. you all shoudlnt chirp to much though, he chose a fast car for a slow division. hes smart if you ask me, ya mabe a lil aggresive but its raicng were not out for a sunday drive.
EVERYONE GO RUN THE HIGHLINE BARRIE SPEEDWAY
Hey #13ps,
Good thinking in what you brought up. Maybe it is time for Lethbridge to take the opportunity to try another track. Who knows unless you try right? Nice point about him picking a fast car for a slow class, there were a number of cars in which were fast for that class and maybe its time to take those cars outta the game. Sometimes there is no choice but to be aggressive, its not a bad thing either. If being able to pass cars in the corners and take the opportunity to slide yourself into an opening between two cars its what is going to get you out on top and obviously Lethbridge proved that this year. I think everyone watching the Four Fun invitational on a Thursday night will agree with what I have to say when#96 was in front of Lethbidge for quite some time and finally in corner 3&4 Lethbridge went high as did Colin and then Lethbridge dove down to the inside and passed Colin UNTOUCHED! (Well until Colin came down and hit him) It was one of the most AMAZING moves I have ever seen, this my friend is what makes you a talented and top driver. Hopefully Barrie next year will see him out, I'm sure he'll have lots of people cheering him on!
-
stang-29, correct me if i am wrong, but do you not race with barrie97ps ???????????
-
Since I know Kyle has every intention of running a Honda Crx next year and its the J-Spec motor more than likley 16 valve.....he wouldnt be welcome at barrie now would he......because 16 valve motors are illigal up there.....and we seen how well the last 16 valve Crx was treated by the drivers of Barrie Speedway.
-
YOU CAN GET 12 VALVES, hint teh burrows. and yah sunset should juss get rid fo 16 valves every other track si smart enough yo bann them, o and by the way what happens if u wanna leave that track you cant runnn newhere
P>S TOW TRUCKS DO HELP
-
ok guys for crap sakes stop b*tching moaning and whining and harrassing each other like some people just like starting sh*t on here its pathetic!
-
this is a serious discussion stop starting issues!!!
-
lmao...Jeff...well heres how I see it...We at Barrie, just like every other home track is gonna look out for our own over others...thats just the lay of the land...noone was put on the hook on purpose, but if u ahve to go down or up and a home car is ont he inside and a foreign car on the outside..u go up...thats jsut the way it is....
-
no im not defending no one man i jus want to see peoples opinions on here and i dont know i jus dont understand y everyone doesnt get along its a website...take the personal issues and take them up with that person in person...do some fisticuffs something i dont care lol
-
Since I know Kyle has every intention of running a Honda Crx next year and its the J-Spec motor more than likley 16 valve.....he wouldnt be welcome at barrie now would he......because 16 valve motors are illigal up there.....and we seen how well the last 16 valve Crx was treated by the drivers of Barrie Speedway.
was that mr. carcone with his engine in his lap? hmmmmmmm
-
lol...it was..and he was told NOT TO COME BACK ON SUNDAY...buthe did neways....its was his own fault
-
Own fault cause he was spanking u guys up there.
-
as much as i really really really dont want to get into ANOTHER fight with you barrie guys, because I honestly don't have a problem with any of you, especially thayne, but how in the world is it his own fault? if i threaten someone that I'm going to punch them in the face if they come to school tomorrow, and they come...and I, true to my word, punch them in the face; Is that their own fault? No, that's assault and I would be held accountable. So how, pray tell, is it Colt's fault for showing up at day 2 of Barrie's invitational?
-
no.eh was driving lke an idiot...and shocker...a 16 beeting 12's..but as i recalhe wrecked two cars...we did nothing and told him not to come back..he did...so something was done...
-
who did he wreck? (non-confrontational voice)
I was there both nights and I honestly can't remember him wrecking anyone, though it may just be this memory of mine
-
MarcisFan: If you read No-Lift's post you would have read that the was nothing said about the pictures taken or the website being updated. I understand that there are comments being said about Mark and what his position at the track consists of but it was Mark's attitude towards other drivers, with Lethbridge being one of them.
-
who did he wreck? (non-confrontational voice)
I was there both nights and I honestly can't remember him wrecking anyone, though it may just be this memory of mine
I honestly can't tell you...I was just discussing this with a fellow racer and that was his reasoning...so....i am assuming it happened...
-
as much as i really really really dont want to get into ANOTHER fight with you barrie guys, because I honestly don't have a problem with any of you, especially thayne, but how in the world is it his own fault? if i threaten someone that I'm going to punch them in the face if they come to school tomorrow, and they come...and I, true to my word, punch them in the face; Is that their own fault? No, that's assault and I would be held accountable. So how, pray tell, is it Colt's fault for showing up at day 2 of Barrie's invitational?
own fault may not have been the correct wording...he mad ea poor choice after a confrontaiton and a warning from several drivers...
-
stang-29, correct me if i am wrong, but do you not race with barrie97ps ???????????
Hey Jibby,
No I don't race with Barrie97ps, I think you are thinking of someone else. My name is Stang-29 because my favorite car is a Mustang and my favorite Nascar driver is Kevin Harvick. Now I do visit both tracks (Barrie and Sunset Speedway), try to balance both out equally. Just enjot the sport and have family members who used to race as well.
-
IF RICK WALT DIDNT GET A FLAT TIRE< COLT CARCONE WOULD OF HAD NOTHING FOR HIM, EVEN IF HE IS A 16 VALVE. why cant sunset juss be like everybody else, make the world easier
-
yah, god forbid glenn tries to go against the grain right?
i mean h***, we're the ONLY track with 16 valve motors....we're also the ONLY track that doesn't allow NextGen thunders...oh.....wait.....
-
lol...next gen's are going to be awesome...gonna send that class to a whole new level!
-
i agree that both nextgens and 6cylinders are the future for the thunders....but don't condemn us for trying something different, when trying something different is the whole attitude barrie is using for getting the nextgen thunders over
-
no i am cool....but it seems like you guys go against the grainon a lot of things..although i LOVED the thursday night 4 cyl. races!
-
actually, next gens are a great idea for a dyin class, in two years i gurantee you all rules in every division are gonne change, ull see everything for for beter in racing. and 16 valves are not good, cuz nothin can raeli compete unless u got a lot of engine, or a twin cam, where next gens the two that are built they dont dominate. and glen tries to slwo them down by amkin them add back pressure, HMMMM, doesnt that helppp YESSS!!!!
-
haha....i bet it helps....helps allt he way to the win..lolwut an idiot....i dont know him and i dont like him all that much
-
Spencer: The reasoning behind me saying that you have no class is because it seems that you are starting to bring my family into this. That in my eyes is very low!!!!!!! I like you man but the minute you start bashing my family, that would be the minute that you should start questioning our friendship.
-
i agree that both nextgens and 6cylinders are the future for the thunders....but don't condemn us for trying something different, when trying something different is the whole attitude barrie is using for getting the nextgen thunders over
i agree but im very upset that no one is using a Z24 cavalier 5 speed with a 3.1 as a 6 cylinder...those motors are bulletproof and combined with the right set up and 5 speed they should fly :twisted:
-
wow thats not very ice barrie97ps
-
i know
-
nvm barrie97, i get it, yah glenn has to think or ask ppl about thign like that, adn if someone tells him he should take it mroe serikoulsy
-
I was also there the weekend Colt got wrecked. But for the record it was Dave Woolings who started all the mess with the barrie cars. Which is something that you do not want to do. This is where the hatred for this car started . It just so happens that colt bought that car from dave . [correct me if wrong] The person who took him out was driving a blue pinto.his name was Ralph Sikes , if i can remember correctly he was pretty far back in the feild. and got caught drinking alcohol that night. And it was,nt even his car. P.S. In case you noticed I did not use spell check Ill leave that to all you grammer Queens
-
hey man..never claimed i was there..if you took the time to read above..i was jsut repeting what was said to me by a driver that was there...before insulting me Lethbridge, maybe stop n think who on here was not mad at you? like two people and then you go an insult me...grow up
-
sorry barrie97ps for that , i was misinformed
-
obviously....appology accepted
-
I was also there the weekend Colt got wrecked. But for the record it was Dave Woolings who started all the mess with the barrie cars. Which is something that you do not want to do. This is where the hatred for this car started . It just so happens that colt bought that car from dave . [correct me if wrong] The person who took him out was driving a blue pinto.his name was Ralph Sikes , if i can remember correctly he was pretty far back in the feild. and got caught drinking alcohol that night. And it was,nt even his car. P.S. In case you noticed I did not use spell check Ill leave that to all you grammer Queens
this is true and that is why dave woolings is hated by all...even late model drivers he races with...i raced with him in 2004 and waited all season for someone to stuff him...not the fact that the guy has a 16 valve car but when he has the power to go around you and repeatedly drives through u to pass...obviously people are going to pinpoint that car...i was also there that weekend...and carcone's boys came running after me n my fellow crew members as they thought it was my brother that took them out...i personally had no problems with colt when i ran against him he always drove me clean but it is just to bad that dave woolings painted a target on that car...but now its good to see what goes around comes around...because now he has a former championship late model and finishes last every night...i love how this system works!
-
system? Perhaps Dave finishes back there because he doesnt have the experience yet. How can someone be happy that a person is doing poorly. Woolings is a nice guy and just because he maybe hit you once and you didn't get over it doesn't mean u have to have a perosnal vendetta out on a guy...
-
wow...ok bud u werent there so stop trying to be mr obvious...ill tell u something man he hit me more than once...ill bring my door to barrie next season n prove this to ur a$$ and the fact of the matter is im sorry if disrespecting ur girlfriend is upsetting u but the man cant drive hes had quite some time to get experience...but as he would probably tell you...hes just that good and doesnt need experience...and it actually took quite some time for me to make this a vendetta bro i mean after over half a season of comin out of the corners sideways because of an idiot who cant drive...usually u tend to get mad...and i apologize to the site admin for going off like this but this guy has really struck a nerve with me!
-
who me? cause i disagreed with you once?
-
Insults are not necessary, I ahve not insulted you once. Getting mad on a forum is not something that you should do. If you met me in person im sure you would like me...ask spencer...but I a merely trying to provide an alternative or another point of view in standing up for someone that is not ehre to represent himself so people have more than one opinion to base their opinions on.
-
yes that is exactly it u shouldve just stated...u disagree not sit there and act like u know the whole story...i hate people that do that my biggest pet peeve! maybe issues wouldnt be started
-
Insults are not necessary, I ahve not insulted you once. Getting mad on a forum is not something that you should do. If you met me in person im sure you would like me...ask spencer...but I a merely trying to provide an alternative or another point of view in standing up for someone that is not ehre to represent himself so people have more than one opinion to base their opinions on.
hmm well u can stand up all u want...but please sit down because u dont kno the story...dont act like u do i was explaining why the car was a target because I KNOW THE STORY otherwise i wouldve kept my mouth shut!
-
yes. but it from your perspective only...which is obviously going to be biased as every driver is when someone hits them, they hold a grudge for a long time. I know i ahve one too...lol...that i prolly should not have.
-
ok man like i said...i do have people that had the same issue...do i need to call them and tell them to post so ull let this go? like please man its pathetic if it was just my opinion i wouldnt post it!
-
and as for hits me...more like hits me repeatedly as in every d*** race!
-
i would like to go on record to say, that i love both thayne and jeff
-
Spencer: The reasoning behind me saying that you have no class is because it seems that you are starting to bring my family into this. That in my eyes is very low!!!!!!! I like you man but the minute you start bashing my family, that would be the minute that you should start questioning our friendship.
i told your dad i liked him....and then i gave you a compliment....
as far as bashing you, dude you know for a fact in any argument I go to bat for sunset, sunset's officials and sunset's drivers.
i've defended you more times than I can count this year, and I was defending the track the same way when your dad said the four fun class was unfun
I have no problem with your family or your extended family, that post was made BEFORE peterborough, when I came up to you and talked with you, complimenting you on a number of things, loyalty is not a quality of mine you have to question.
-
Good grief
-
haha...my thoughts exaclty...
-
lmao...Jeff...well heres how I see it...We at Barrie, just like every other home track is gonna look out for our own over others...thats just the lay of the land...noone was put on the hook on purpose, but if u ahve to go down or up and a home car is ont he inside and a foreign car on the outside..u go up...thats jsut the way it is....
Thayne I do believe that if you've got cars passing you on both sides you need to be spending more time working on the car and less time posting on message boards about who you'd rather run into :)
Not to mention how in the world you let your uncle send that most excellent potential tow vehicle and trailer all the way over here to us in Qatar :):):)
-
I read this thread all the way through its many twists and turns and thought I would throw my two cents in since the drivers meeting is coming up this weekend and I think some of this stuff maybe discussed there .
jarracings original point that rubbing is racing is correct and what this series is for the novice driver on a budget to try out stock ar racing have some fun and learn and perhaps move up a division if they find they like it . No one is having fun or learning anything if they are parked for bumping into someone . Incidental contact and a little rubbing should be fine and the same rule that applies in other divisions should apply in the FFs. If the rubbing turns into beating and bashing black flag the offenders for that race , if it escalates to the point where drivers are going after each other park them for the night.
To those that say you cant have any touching because of a lack of cages , I wonder if they have ever been to an enduro race full size or 4 cylinder where it is as many as 200 laps of beating and bashing in cars not as well prepared as your average FF . If your that afraid of being touched stock car racing may not be for you . I saw some of the races where drivers were black flagged for a little rubbing but I never saw any damage resulting to any of the cars involved that I could not repair in 15 minutes with a big hammer and some 200 mph tape , so the you will have to spend the whole week fixing them theory thing doesn't wash. If your going to run this class you would be advised to have a spare fender or two and maybe an extra rad laying around that's just the nature of stock car racing .
The biggest problem I see for this class so far is the inconsistency of the officials .
-
I take it you don't actually race a Four Fun. These cars get up to 100 Km's and when and if you hit it isn't always a fender that can be banged out with a hammer. We had to replace a transmission this year due to an accidental bump that could of been avoided by er um not driving into the back of somebody... twice.
This is a great division to start out in. Simply rip around the track and make no contact. If you want contact move up a division.
As far as inconsistency in officiating goes I can see how it appears that way. I think what happen is that the drivers are given the beginning of the year to get the hang of things and are reminded of the no contact. After a few races it gets taken advantage of. I suspect the frequent black flags for those 2 weeks were to send a message to keep it clean. Next year I am sure this will be the one rule you will see that will be enforced as there is getting to be too many cars and too many new drivers.
-
I take it you don't actually race a Four Fun. These cars get up to 100 Km's
As far as inconsistency in officiating goes I can see how it appears that way.
No I don't actually race a Four Fun but I am actually old enough to have seen Sprint cars with out cages run at Terra Haute and Midgets with out cages run at the CNE and they all did some serious rubbing . As I said I am not advocating beating and bashing , I just don't want to see a black flag waved because someone pushes up into someone else coming off the corner in cars that lack enough camber or steering geometry to do anything but push like bull dozers.
It is not that it APPEARS to be inconsistency in the officiating this is what most veteran's at the track consider the biggest problem facing Sunset at this time . This problem is not unique to the FF division at Sunset since I think every driver in the top ten in the LM division has spoken to Glen about this problem.
Let them guys do a little racin when it looks to be getting a little rough first a warning then a black flag . You will find most guys will settle down after a warning and you also find some guys will never settle down no matter how the rules read.
-
Sorry Don after the crying about the coat it all sounds like sour grapes coming from you now even though you may have made some valid points.
You are way off base about a starter having to race for many years to be able to be a good starter . Some of the best starters I have ever seen either raced very little or not at all . Roger Slack (Randys bro) raced very very little but he was good enough to end up being the starter at Lowes Motor Speedway. (for those of you from Keswick thats Charlotte)
-
Sorry for ruffling a few feathers.
In "ALL HONESTY " Sunset Speedway is a good place to work and for racing. The Lloyd family has worked hard to get it where it is today!
Maybe Glen and I have had a few words, but he is a great guy. He is always there when you need him. He has done a lot of good work to the track to improve it to what it is today , but it would be nicer to see it with the grandstand full. Even though we have retired and have left, we will be back only not in the same positions. I would bend over backwards to help in at anytime like we have done before. To Rob, Craig, Bill Arie, all the best and may you all have a Blessed Christmas and a Better 2007. Likewise to those who read this , FROM OUR HOUSE TO YOURS.
-
Nice post Don!
-
With only racing for a short time, I must agree with the statement that. If a driver has raced for one year in the four fun class and was in the top ten in points, then he or she should seriously look at moving up to the next class. Definetly after two years in the top ten, then they must move up and let those coming into the class have room to run. As for the starters, they should complete a pro starters course before going into the stand. Just because you might have raced in the thunder car class and went no where then you should not be even in the stand. Reguardless who you are buddy-buddy with!
-
As above - silly little man - your moods change more than the weather - call him - I am sure he would love to hear from you.